American Monsters: Matt Baker

0:00 Speaker 1: Warning, Kind of Murdery contains adult themes, explicit language, and

0:04 Speaker 1: descriptions of violence. It is not suitable for anyone, and

0:07 Speaker 1: we recommend you stop listening now.

0:20 Speaker 2: True crime with a dash of the paranormal, the garish,

0:23 Speaker 2: the strange, in the darkly comic. I'm zevn Odelberg, host

0:27 Speaker 2: of kind of Murdery, a podcast that's about more than

0:31 Speaker 2: just murder. It's my very own pocket dimension, home to

0:34 Speaker 2: a curated collection of bizarre and compelling stories, the unsolved,

0:38 Speaker 2: the unsettling, and the unbelievable. I cover it all just

0:43 Speaker 2: so long as it's kind of Murdery, that's the truth.

0:46 Speaker 2: Just like it says in the intro, I am zevn Odelberg,

0:49 Speaker 2: and this is kind of Murdery. Got a story for

0:52 Speaker 2: you today about a small town monster having one hell

0:56 Speaker 2: of a midlife crisis, and I'm going to jump right

0:58 Speaker 2: into it. So if you're ready, please join me as

1:02 Speaker 2: we uncover what truths we can and solve what mysteries

1:06 Speaker 2: we may. Kind of murders, the devil lurks behind the cross.

1:10 Speaker 2: The Murder of Carrie Baker starts now in the city

1:25 Speaker 2: of Wago, Texas on April tenth, two thousand and six.

1:28 Speaker 2: The atmosphere was dense with a sense of loss and melancholy.

1:32 Speaker 2: The occasion was the funeral of Carrie Baker, a devoted

1:35 Speaker 2: wife to a Baptist minister named Matt and a respected

1:38 Speaker 2: third grade teacher. The gathering was so sizable that it

1:41 Speaker 2: had to be moved to one of the city's larger

1:43 Speaker 2: funeral homes rather than the cozy confines of Crossroads Baptist,

1:47 Speaker 2: where Matt Baker was a preacher. The crowd overflowed, filling

1:51 Speaker 2: up not just the seats but also the aisles with

1:53 Speaker 2: folding chairs. Some mourners were relegated to standing positions along

1:56 Speaker 2: the back walls or peering in from the foyer. Him

2:00 Speaker 2: if you want Me to reverberated through the air, sung

2:03 Speaker 2: by a soloist, evoking the struggle and pain that mark

2:06 Speaker 2: human existence. Steve Sadler, a lecturer in the religion department

2:10 Speaker 2: at Baylor University, led the service. He referenced verses from

2:13 Speaker 2: Carrie's own Bible that spoke of God's boundless love versus

2:17 Speaker 2: Carrie herself had underlined. This was a woman who had

2:20 Speaker 2: made her presence felt not just in her church where

2:22 Speaker 2: she spearheaded children's programs, but also in the local elementary

2:26 Speaker 2: school where she taught third grade, and yet an unspoken

2:29 Speaker 2: weight hung heavy in the room. Carrie Baker, just thirty

2:32 Speaker 2: one years old, had struggled every year around late March,

2:35 Speaker 2: grappling with insurmountable grief. It was the anniversary of the

2:39 Speaker 2: loss of her second child, Cassidy, who had died seven

2:42 Speaker 2: years earlier from brain cancer. Each year, the anguish was

2:46 Speaker 2: so great that Carrie would sequester herself at home, spending

2:49 Speaker 2: her days in bed watching old videos of Cassidy's innocent

2:52 Speaker 2: crawl across the floor. This year, the burdens seemed to

2:56 Speaker 2: have become unbearable. According to the police report, Carrie had

2:59 Speaker 2: left a type note on her bedside table and overdosed

3:02 Speaker 2: on sleeping pills. The note was achingly simple, yet profoundly haunting.

3:07 Speaker 2: It said, quote, I want to give Cassidy a hug.

3:10 Speaker 2: I need to feel her again unquote. The narrative that

3:13 Speaker 2: permeated the funeral service was of a life consumed by grief.

3:17 Speaker 2: In the wake of Carrie Baker's funeral, the community turned

3:20 Speaker 2: its gaze toward Matt, her husband, a minister of just

3:23 Speaker 2: thirty five years old. He sat in the front row

3:26 Speaker 2: at the service, his demeanor a tableau of inconsolable sorrow.

3:29 Speaker 2: When he lifted his head from his hands, his eyes,

3:32 Speaker 2: a light blue hue that was almost startling, met the

3:35 Speaker 2: congregation's gaze. After the eulogy, Matt found the strength to

3:38 Speaker 2: stand beside the pulpit, his two remaining daughters flanking him.

3:42 Speaker 2: With each hug and expression of condolences he received, he

3:45 Speaker 2: assured the congregation that he'd be back to preach on

3:48 Speaker 2: the most hopeful day of the Christian calendar, Easter, Sunday.

3:51 Speaker 2: God has not abandoned me, he whispered to one close friend.

3:55 Speaker 2: He will give me the strength to carry on. In

3:57 Speaker 2: the days that followed, Matt was compared to the biblical

3:59 Speaker 2: figure of Job, a man who remained steadfast in his

4:02 Speaker 2: faith despite unimaginable trials. The church community circled around him.

4:06 Speaker 2: Emails and letters from fellow ministers flooded in commending his

4:10 Speaker 2: unwavering devotion. His congregation offered practical help, chores, meals, and

4:15 Speaker 2: even an offer from one woman to teach him how

4:17 Speaker 2: to style his daughter's hair. But something unsettling began to

4:21 Speaker 2: be murmured. About a month later, rumors surfaced that Carrie's mother,

4:24 Speaker 2: Linda Doolan, backed by her sisters and niece, was conducting

4:28 Speaker 2: her own investigation into Carrie's death. The whispers intensified when

4:32 Speaker 2: word got out that Linda and her husband Jim, had

4:34 Speaker 2: engaged a lawyer and private investigators. This was puzzling to many,

4:38 Speaker 2: after all, the Hewett police had been convinced enough of

4:40 Speaker 2: Carrie's suicide that they hadn't even requested an autopsy. Then

4:44 Speaker 2: in September, the whisperings finally found footing in shocking reality.

4:48 Speaker 2: Based on findings by Linda and her cohort. Dubbed the

4:52 Speaker 2: Charlie's Angels of Waco by some, the police reversed their

4:55 Speaker 2: initial judgment. Matt Baker was arrested and charged with the

4:58 Speaker 2: murder of his wife, Carrie. The allegations were as grim

5:01 Speaker 2: as they were stunning. Matt was accused of drugging Carey

5:04 Speaker 2: with medication and alcohol before suffocating her with a pillow

5:08 Speaker 2: or similar item. The revelation struck at the very core

5:11 Speaker 2: of the Waco Baptist community, a place often referred to

5:15 Speaker 2: as Jerusalem on the Brazos, home to Baylor University, the

5:19 Speaker 2: world's largest Baptist educational institution and a veritable patchwork of

5:23 Speaker 2: Baptist churches. Waco epitomized a community of faith. Paul Stripling,

5:28 Speaker 2: a prominent pastor and the former head of the Waco

5:30 Speaker 2: Baptist Association, summed it up saying, Waco is where lives

5:34 Speaker 2: revolve around churches. It's a city where heads bow in

5:37 Speaker 2: prayer over restaurant tables. This is not a place where

5:39 Speaker 2: anyone expects to hear that a pastor, especially one of

5:42 Speaker 2: our Baptist pastors, could be accused of murdering his wife.

5:46 Speaker 2: The appalling turn of events sent ripples of disbelief and

5:49 Speaker 2: confusion through a community that until then had prided itself

5:53 Speaker 2: on its spiritual fortitude. What had started as a tragic

5:56 Speaker 2: tale of loss had transmuted into a dark narrative of so suspicion,

6:00 Speaker 2: casting a shadow over a community and a faith that

6:03 Speaker 2: had thrived on the strength of its conviction. Murder wasn't

6:07 Speaker 2: the sole allegation that shook the very core of Waco, Texas.

6:10 Speaker 2: Linda Doolan, a fifty four year old college professor, along

6:13 Speaker 2: with her team of private investigators, and of course, Linda

6:16 Speaker 2: is also Carrie's mother, an earth alarming information about Matt Baker.

6:20 Speaker 2: According to her, the pastor had led a double life.

6:23 Speaker 2: One is a sexual predator, targeting teenage girls and women. Disturbingly,

6:27 Speaker 2: there was even an incident during his student days at

6:29 Speaker 2: Baylor where he was accused of attempted sexual assault. Linda

6:32 Speaker 2: dropped a bombshell by suggesting that Matt's motive for murdering

6:35 Speaker 2: her daughter might have been two fold, saying, perhaps Matt

6:39 Speaker 2: chose to end my daughter's life because he had fallen

6:41 Speaker 2: her a new romantic interest, a twenty four year old

6:44 Speaker 2: single mother attending his church, Linda speculated, or it might

6:47 Speaker 2: have been because Carrie had discovered his other life and

6:50 Speaker 2: posed a threat of exposing him, regardless he wanted her gone.

6:54 Speaker 2: The fallout was instantaneous and massive. The Waco Tribune Herald,

6:58 Speaker 2: normally a subdued publication, splashed the allegations across its front

7:02 Speaker 2: page suicide murder, It's a mystery. Channon Gamble, a local housewife,

7:07 Speaker 2: even launched a website to keep the community updated on

7:09 Speaker 2: every twist and turn of the case. The media circus

7:12 Speaker 2: reached a fever pitch with television crews from ABC's twenty

7:16 Speaker 2: twenty in CBS's forty eight Hours descending upon Waco to

7:19 Speaker 2: get the inside scoop. Amid the chaos, Kimberly Barry, a

7:22 Speaker 2: thirty four year old married mother, voiced the incredulity that

7:25 Speaker 2: gripped many. Matt was an incredible pastor. His sermons spoke

7:29 Speaker 2: directly to me. Now I'm left feeling utterly disillusioned, she lamented.

7:33 Speaker 2: Could it be that a man who appeared so devout

7:35 Speaker 2: was actually someone else? Entirely for the faithful in Waco?

7:39 Speaker 2: This wasn't merely another headline. It was a moral quandary,

7:42 Speaker 2: an existential dilemma ripped right off the pages of the Bible.

7:45 Speaker 2: Was Matt Baker a man of God unfairly targeted by

7:48 Speaker 2: vengeful in laws? Or was he, to use Baptist vernacular,

7:52 Speaker 2: a man consumed with demons, a monstrous deviant wrapped in

7:56 Speaker 2: the guise of piety. If the latter were true, how

7:59 Speaker 2: he managed to operate so long under the radar in

8:02 Speaker 2: a city deeply intertwined with faith. The community wrestled with

8:05 Speaker 2: these harrowing questions, finding themselves in a crisis of faith

8:09 Speaker 2: that went beyond any murder investigation. Matt Baker was not

8:13 Speaker 2: the kind of Baptist pastor one would immediately recognize from

8:16 Speaker 2: central casting. Instead of an imposing figure with a larger

8:19 Speaker 2: than life persona, Matt stood at the modest height of

8:22 Speaker 2: five foot seven inches, dressed unpretentiously in an economical button

8:26 Speaker 2: down shirt and slacked. His most striking feature was his face.

8:29 Speaker 2: It bore an uncanny resemblance to the sorrowful countenances found

8:33 Speaker 2: in renaissances paintings of early Christian martyrs. When confronted with

8:37 Speaker 2: the pointed question of whether he murdered his wife, Carrie,

8:39 Speaker 2: Matt's eyes welled up with tears. Of course, not I

8:43 Speaker 2: was Carrie's protector, he declared, his voice fraught with emotion,

8:46 Speaker 2: his eyes diverted, locking onto a nondescript wall. The tragedy here,

8:51 Speaker 2: he solemnly proclaimed, is that no one, none of us,

8:54 Speaker 2: understood the depths of her depression. Matt's attorney, Guy James Gray,

8:59 Speaker 2: a man of considerable reputation for his prosecutorial work in

9:03 Speaker 2: the infamous James Bird Dragon case, watched intently. Gray had

9:07 Speaker 2: taken Matt's case pro bono, a powerful statement in itself.

9:11 Speaker 2: When it came to physical evidence, Gray underscored there was

9:13 Speaker 2: nothing implicating Matt. The charges were speculative at best. What's

9:17 Speaker 2: being done to this young man as an injustice? Gray

9:20 Speaker 2: solemnly stated, here was a young man who seemed to

9:23 Speaker 2: exude sincerity and piety, a man who had grown up

9:26 Speaker 2: in a household brimming with the virtues of love and acceptance,

9:29 Speaker 2: surrounded by foster siblings who had faced hardships far beyond

9:32 Speaker 2: their years. Raised by Oscar and Barbara, a quiet, diligent couple,

9:36 Speaker 2: Matt had committed himself to ministry at a young age,

9:39 Speaker 2: eventually attending Baylor University to hone his ministerial skills. A

9:43 Speaker 2: former classmate, now a prominent Waco pastor, was baffled by

9:47 Speaker 2: the allegations against Matt. He seemed like a phenomenal Christian

9:51 Speaker 2: young man, said the pastor, unable to reconcile the Matt

9:54 Speaker 2: Baker he knew with the accusations leveled against him. Yet

9:57 Speaker 2: there was an unsettling event lurking in Matt's past, an

10:00 Speaker 2: incident at Baylor involving a female trainer, a roommate of

10:04 Speaker 2: Billy Graham's granddaughter. No Less, she had accused him of

10:06 Speaker 2: a harrowing attempt at sexual assault. Matt however, shrugged off

10:10 Speaker 2: the event, attributing it to a misunderstanding, even asserting that

10:13 Speaker 2: the university administration had dismissed her claims as unfounded. The

10:17 Speaker 2: allegations against Matt Baker splintered the Waco community, casting doubt

10:22 Speaker 2: on a man many had once seen as a paragon

10:24 Speaker 2: of virtue. Even Kimberly Berry, a parishioner who had found

10:27 Speaker 2: solace in Matt's sermons, was grappling with an unsettling cognitive dissonance.

10:32 Speaker 2: Could a man who so compellingly spoke the word of

10:34 Speaker 2: God be a wolf in sheep's clothing? In Waco, a

10:38 Speaker 2: city rooted in its religious communities, the charges against Matt

10:41 Speaker 2: Baker weren't just scandalous. They were sacrilegious. People grappled with

10:46 Speaker 2: the age old struggle between good and evil, asking themselves

10:49 Speaker 2: whether Matt was an unfairly persecuted man of God or

10:53 Speaker 2: a nefarious predator exploiting his ecclesiastical cover. In a place

10:57 Speaker 2: where faith often informed fact, the community teetered on a

11:01 Speaker 2: moral precipice, its collective conscience weighing the implications of Matt's

11:05 Speaker 2: guilt or innocence. The story was far from ordinary. It

11:09 Speaker 2: was biblical in scope, challenging the community's convictions about sin

11:13 Speaker 2: and redemption, about guilt and innocence, Because the core question remained,

11:17 Speaker 2: who exactly was Matt Baker? Was he a humble servant

11:21 Speaker 2: of God who had tragically lost his wife or was

11:23 Speaker 2: he a man capable of deceit, manipulation, and even murder?

11:27 Speaker 2: And if the latter was true, how had he managed

11:30 Speaker 2: to conceal his dark proclivities in a city like Waco

11:33 Speaker 2: for so long? These were questions that demanded answers as

11:37 Speaker 2: the eyes of a riveted community and a nation remained

11:40 Speaker 2: fixed on the unfolding drama, a drama that tested the

11:43 Speaker 2: very fabric of belief, trust, and community. The narrative of

11:47 Speaker 2: Matt Baker, a Baptist minister from Cerville, Texas, unfurdles like

11:52 Speaker 2: a tightly wound coil, revealing complex layers of intrigue, moral ambiguity,

11:57 Speaker 2: and hints of malfeasance. However, Matt's background is far more

12:02 Speaker 2: complicated than his outward piety suggested. Though his upbringing seemed

12:06 Speaker 2: to be a model for Christian virtues. Raised in a

12:09 Speaker 2: group foster home led by his hard working parents, his

12:12 Speaker 2: history carries questionable episodes that cast shadows on his character.

12:16 Speaker 2: At Baylor University, where he aimed for a career in

12:19 Speaker 2: church recreation, a female trainer accused him of sexual assault.

12:23 Speaker 2: The university's investigation tilted in Matt's favor, and the woman

12:26 Speaker 2: left the school. In another incident post marriage, two separate

12:30 Speaker 2: reports emerged about Matt's inappropriate conduct with women at First

12:33 Speaker 2: Baptist Church, although no formal action was taken. This tale

12:37 Speaker 2: unfolds against a backdrop where ecclesiastical governance is fragmented. The

12:42 Speaker 2: Baptist General Convention of Texas provides no centralized oversight, allowing

12:46 Speaker 2: churches to operate autonomously. This lack of structure can sometimes

12:50 Speaker 2: offer pastors like Matt a cloak of impunity. The Baptist

12:54 Speaker 2: church self imposed silence, perhaps aimed at avoiding defamation suits,

13:00 Speaker 2: iverertinently shield those accused of misconduct, allowing them to ascend

13:03 Speaker 2: in their careers unimpeded. And just to be clear, we

13:06 Speaker 2: know this sort of thing occurs in all kinds of

13:09 Speaker 2: other denominations and organizations where mentor figures are given influence

13:15 Speaker 2: and the trust of the vulnerable. So please don't feel

13:19 Speaker 2: like I'm picking on Baptists. In particular because this story

13:23 Speaker 2: happens to be about Baptists. I'm not going to name

13:25 Speaker 2: drop other denominations or organizations that have also been guilty

13:30 Speaker 2: of inadvertently or otherwise covering up sexual misconduct. But I

13:34 Speaker 2: think we all know who I'm talking about, and so

13:36 Speaker 2: we're left with a character study as complex as a labyrinth.

13:40 Speaker 2: Matt Baker Embodi's contradictions benevolence juxtaposed against potential depravity, devoutness

13:46 Speaker 2: clouded by alleged moral lapses. The gravest among these questions

13:50 Speaker 2: hinges on the mysterious circumstances surrounding his wife, Carrie's life

13:54 Speaker 2: and death. She a young woman with dreams of a

13:57 Speaker 2: Christian family, seems to have believed whole heartly in Matt's virtues.

14:01 Speaker 2: Yet the questionable episodes in Matt's past loom large, a

14:04 Speaker 2: web of complexities that makes his innocence in this case

14:08 Speaker 2: far from conclusive. It is a story marred by tragedy,

14:11 Speaker 2: unanswered questions, and a chilling sense that beneath the facade

14:15 Speaker 2: of religious dedication might lie a darker reality. The devil

14:20 Speaker 2: lurks behind the cross, a maximum coined in the book

14:24 Speaker 2: Don Quixote, by legendary Spanish author Miguel Cervantes. Matt's career,

14:29 Speaker 2: ostensibly dedicated to serving the community and shaping young minds,

14:33 Speaker 2: carried a burdensome undercurrent. To supplement his income, he ran

14:37 Speaker 2: an afterschool youth program at the YMCA. However, in June

14:41 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, his life took a turn. He was

14:43 Speaker 2: terminated from his job under disturbing circumstances. The YMCA director

14:47 Speaker 2: had collected written statements from four young female employees claiming

14:51 Speaker 2: that Matt had sexually propositioned them. One of the women

14:54 Speaker 2: recounted Matt telling her quote, I'm horny and I want

14:58 Speaker 2: to have sex with you now, uote, while another narrator

15:01 Speaker 2: that Matt had suddenly said quote, I just want to

15:04 Speaker 2: fuck you right here, right now, touched her pants near

15:07 Speaker 2: her genitalia, and then placed her hands on his crotch.

15:10 Speaker 2: Unfazed by the inquiries, Matt claimed the allegations were false.

15:14 Speaker 2: He argued that the YMCA had terminated him only because

15:16 Speaker 2: they believed he had inquired about one of the employee's

15:19 Speaker 2: sexual exploits with her boyfriend. To his account, it was

15:22 Speaker 2: all a misunderstanding. He defended himself, saying other people were

15:26 Speaker 2: around the skate room who knew that didn't happen, and

15:29 Speaker 2: went on to claim that his line of work naturally

15:32 Speaker 2: exposed him to accusations from females who misunderstood his actions.

15:36 Speaker 2: Seems kind of difficult to misunderstand someone grabbing your crotch

15:40 Speaker 2: and telling you they want to have sex with you

15:42 Speaker 2: right now, But okay, Matt. Matt then pointed out a

15:45 Speaker 2: fact that these remained just allegations, and so they did

15:49 Speaker 2: kept away in files at the YMCA, First Baptist of

15:53 Speaker 2: Waco and Baylor, the institutions that Matt had been associated with. Astonishingly,

15:58 Speaker 2: none of these accusations served just when Matt was accepted

16:01 Speaker 2: into George W. Trueth Theological Seminary at Baylor. Nor did

16:04 Speaker 2: anyone speak up when Matt took his first job as

16:07 Speaker 2: a pastor at Pec Grove Baptist in Gatesville, a church

16:10 Speaker 2: that had a history of nurturing promising preacher boys from

16:14 Speaker 2: Baylor in nineteen ninety eight. Matt's pastoral journey took him

16:17 Speaker 2: to William's Creek Baptist Church in axe Tel. He won hearts.

16:21 Speaker 2: He expanded the children's Sunday school and youth programs, his

16:24 Speaker 2: sermons struck chords. God is looking for people to be transformed,

16:29 Speaker 2: he often declared. Meanwhile, Carrie, described by friends as the

16:33 Speaker 2: perfect pastor's wife, led Bible study groups and opened her

16:37 Speaker 2: heart and home to those in distress. Once a young

16:40 Speaker 2: man struggling with his sexuality approached her, and instead of lecturing,

16:44 Speaker 2: Carrie warmly embraced him and assured God will always love

16:48 Speaker 2: you always. However, it's crucial to note that Carrie seemed

16:51 Speaker 2: unperturbed by the murkiness surrounding Matt. Her mother, Linda, recalled

16:55 Speaker 2: conversations where Carrie defended Matt, dismissing allegations against him as

16:59 Speaker 2: either her misunderstandings or attention seeking fabrications by young women.

17:04 Speaker 2: Her steadfast belief in her husband's innocence, coupled with her

17:07 Speaker 2: radiant spirit, made them appear as the embodiment of a wholesome,

17:11 Speaker 2: young Baptist family. Then, the Baker's life underwent a seismic shift.

17:15 Speaker 2: In late nineteen ninety eight, their second child, Cassidy, was

17:19 Speaker 2: diagnosed with a brain tumor oh Man. Despite ninety days

17:23 Speaker 2: in the hospital and numerous complications, the baby girl lost

17:26 Speaker 2: her battle for life on March twenty second, nineteen ninety nine,

17:30 Speaker 2: and the family's world collapsed. Carrie's grief was tangible, her

17:33 Speaker 2: loss insurmountable. She was seen digging at her daughter's fresh

17:37 Speaker 2: grave with her bare hands, a haunting image of a

17:40 Speaker 2: mother's despair. The church community did their best to support Carrie,

17:43 Speaker 2: who was struggling to get out of bed. Food and

17:46 Speaker 2: flowers and condolences were showered, yet the void was unfillable.

17:51 Speaker 2: An outdoor frayer garden was erected in Cassidy's memory, but

17:54 Speaker 2: the darkness continued to envelop Carrie. Matt recounted a particularly

17:59 Speaker 2: harrowing event. According to him, Carrie ran out of the

18:02 Speaker 2: house with a knife, mumbling about ending things. He said

18:05 Speaker 2: he found her at the church playground, where they both

18:07 Speaker 2: succumbed to tears before he escorted her back home. This

18:10 Speaker 2: saga leaves us with unresolvable tensions and ethical ambiguities. Here

18:15 Speaker 2: is the community that seeks spiritual guidance from individuals whose

18:18 Speaker 2: lives are laden with troubling questions and unresolved allegations. How

18:23 Speaker 2: do institutions entrusted with the moral and spiritual well being

18:26 Speaker 2: of the community fail to hold their leaders accountable. The

18:29 Speaker 2: story raises unsettling questions about systemic failure and societal neglect,

18:34 Speaker 2: leading us to question whether the mask of sanctity worn

18:38 Speaker 2: by some can be the very cloak that hides evil.

18:41 Speaker 2: In an attempt to distance themselves from the haunting memories

18:44 Speaker 2: of their daughter, Cassidy, Matt and Carey shifted their lives,

18:48 Speaker 2: even changing towns. By two thousand, Matt was leading the

18:51 Speaker 2: congregation at First Baptist Church in Retel or it might

18:54 Speaker 2: be Rifel, I'm not sure. Two years later, he took

18:57 Speaker 2: on the role of pastor at North Lake Baptist and

18:59 Speaker 2: day Alice, coinciding with Carrie pursuing a master's degree in

19:03 Speaker 2: leadership and management. Yet, by two thousand and five they

19:06 Speaker 2: returned to Waco, their lives orbiting around the familial roots

19:10 Speaker 2: and the resting place of their lost child. In Waco,

19:13 Speaker 2: Matt found employment as the chaplain for the Waco Center

19:16 Speaker 2: for Youth and also as the pastor of Crossroads Baptist

19:19 Speaker 2: in Hewitt, a church that Carrie's parents frequented. According to

19:23 Speaker 2: Jim Doolan, a senior inspector for a Department of Defense

19:26 Speaker 2: facility and deacon at the church, the congregation was optimistic.

19:30 Speaker 2: Matt was seen as the spark that would invigorate their

19:32 Speaker 2: modest gathering, hopeful to grow in the shadow of a

19:35 Speaker 2: new neighbor across the street. Both Matt and Carrie immersed

19:39 Speaker 2: themselves in their church duties, and Carrie even started teaching

19:42 Speaker 2: at a nearby elementary school. However, signs of persistent, inescapable

19:46 Speaker 2: grief began to surface. Emails sent by Carrie to Matt

19:50 Speaker 2: illustrated her emotional dissent, culminating in a devastating admission. For

19:54 Speaker 2: the first time, she had truly realized their daughter was

19:57 Speaker 2: never coming back, and it felt as if she were

19:59 Speaker 2: reliving her loss anew and it fractured her. As March,

20:03 Speaker 2: the anniversary of Cassidy's passing approach, her emotional state continued

20:07 Speaker 2: to deteriorate. Her best friend, Jill Holtz, a high school

20:10 Speaker 2: drama teacher, noticed Carrie's shift. According to Holtz, Carrie's disposition

20:14 Speaker 2: during that spring was becoming increasingly bleak. A heated argument

20:18 Speaker 2: between the couple exacerbated matters. While praying during Cassidy's last days,

20:23 Speaker 2: Matt asked for a cure and Carrie asked for an

20:26 Speaker 2: end to their daughter's suffering, even if it meant her death.

20:29 Speaker 2: Matt's subsequent emails accused Carrie of essentially willing their daughter

20:34 Speaker 2: to death. God, what an asshole, not that a grieving

20:37 Speaker 2: parent should be judged. I can't imagine what that horrible,

20:41 Speaker 2: horrible sadness is like. But the implication that she had

20:44 Speaker 2: willed her daughter to death, delivered by the one person

20:47 Speaker 2: there to support her, shattered Carrie. She became convinced that

20:51 Speaker 2: Matt was having an affair, adding yet another crack to

20:54 Speaker 2: her fragile emotional state. Despite assurances from Hoats, she sought

20:58 Speaker 2: professional help, visiting a therapist she'd met after Cassie's death.

21:02 Speaker 2: In that session, she shared an unsettling revelation she'd found

21:06 Speaker 2: a mysterious bottle of pills in Matt's briefcase and believed

21:10 Speaker 2: he was plotting her murder. When asked to repeat her claims,

21:13 Speaker 2: she retracted, promising to call back if her quote obsessive

21:16 Speaker 2: thoughts persisted. The call never came. Despite the dark cloud

21:22 Speaker 2: hanging over her, Carrie was seen in high spirits as

21:25 Speaker 2: she interviewed for a new job. Later that day, she, Matt,

21:28 Speaker 2: and their children were at the YMCA witnesses say she

21:31 Speaker 2: was her usual outgoing self, greeting people cheerfully, then tragedy struck.

21:36 Speaker 2: She vanished. A midnight call from Matt to nine one

21:39 Speaker 2: one announced her presumed suicide. This is a tale not

21:44 Speaker 2: just of individual sorrow, but a heartbreaking look into the

21:47 Speaker 2: depths of human emotions, marriage, and the irreversible scars that

21:51 Speaker 2: lost leaves on a family. As the community reconciles with

21:54 Speaker 2: what unfolded, lingering questions remain. What drove Carrie into her

21:58 Speaker 2: own abyss of despair was Matt's coldness, a reaction to

22:01 Speaker 2: his own buried grief, or something more sinister one of

22:04 Speaker 2: the mysterious pills The case reverberates with tragic ambiguity, a

22:09 Speaker 2: haunting reminder that sometimes the heaviest burdens we carry are

22:13 Speaker 2: emotions left unspoken. And on that note, I'd like to mention,

22:17 Speaker 2: as I often do, the free twenty four hour, seven

22:20 Speaker 2: day a week lifeline number nine eight eight that you

22:23 Speaker 2: can call anytime to receive immediate counseling for substance use,

22:28 Speaker 2: mental health or suicidal thoughts. So if you find yourself

22:31 Speaker 2: in a dark, dark place, please do call nine eight eight.

22:35 Speaker 2: Program it into your phone now, and please do remember

22:38 Speaker 2: that you are loved and the world is a better

22:40 Speaker 2: place with you in it. Now, I'm not qualified to

22:43 Speaker 2: help you if you're in a really desperate place, So

22:46 Speaker 2: in that case, God forbid, please do call nine eight eight.

22:49 Speaker 2: But if you'd like to reach out to me, just

22:51 Speaker 2: to connect with someone to share stories of your own

22:54 Speaker 2: personal challenges or your own kind of murdery story, please

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23:11 Speaker 2: three three seven nine. You can share whatever you want.

23:13 Speaker 2: You can share a story of dealing with the challenges

23:16 Speaker 2: of living with a disability as many of you know,

23:18 Speaker 2: I myself have cerebral palsy. You can share a kind

23:22 Speaker 2: of murdery story from your own life. There are really

23:24 Speaker 2: no rules. Just go ahead and give the kind of

23:26 Speaker 2: Murdery Hotline a call eighty eight Murdery that's eighty eight

23:29 Speaker 2: six eight seven three three seven nine. The air was thick,

23:43 Speaker 2: with doubt and grief hanging heavy in the homes and

23:47 Speaker 2: Hearts of Waco, Texas. The paramedics arrived to find Carrie

23:51 Speaker 2: Baker unresponsive, her lips tinged blue, the terrifying hue of mortality.

23:56 Speaker 2: The room told a story, a bottle of Unisom sleepy

24:00 Speaker 2: pills nearly empty, and a note to Matt, her husband,

24:03 Speaker 2: asking him to continue being a loving father to their daughters.

24:06 Speaker 2: Matt had already discovered Carrie's lifeless body locked in their

24:09 Speaker 2: bedroom after coming home from renting a movie. It was

24:12 Speaker 2: the second time he had found a loved one dead.

24:16 Speaker 2: Their daughter, Cassidy, had died years before. The cause of

24:19 Speaker 2: Carrie's death appeared open and shut. Law enforcements seemed to

24:22 Speaker 2: be willing to chalk it up as a tragic suicide.

24:25 Speaker 2: With the type note covered in Carrie's fingerprints and Matt's

24:28 Speaker 2: account that she had been talking about ending her life,

24:31 Speaker 2: it appeared to be a closed case. The authorities even

24:34 Speaker 2: skipped the legally mandated steps, opting not to perform an autopsy.

24:38 Speaker 2: Maybe it was deference to Matt's role as a young pastor,

24:41 Speaker 2: or perhaps they too were caught in the inertia of grief.

24:45 Speaker 2: When Matt returned to his duties at the church, he

24:48 Speaker 2: sermonized about Carrie's triumphal injury, and that's in quotes into heaven.

24:52 Speaker 2: His mother in law, Linda, sat in the pew, her

24:55 Speaker 2: eyes a cascade of tears, her soul yearning for understanding.

24:59 Speaker 2: She wanted to believe that Carrie's death was a tragedy

25:01 Speaker 2: devoid of foul play, but skepticism took root, with Linda

25:05 Speaker 2: and her sisters, each one harboring a growing distrust of Matt.

25:09 Speaker 2: For years, rumors had circulated about Matt's inappropriate advances towards

25:13 Speaker 2: younger women. The whispers, once dismissed, now demanded investigation. Linda

25:18 Speaker 2: and her sisters formed an informal investigation team dubbed the

25:22 Speaker 2: Charlie's Angels of Waco, and they used their wits and

25:26 Speaker 2: intuition to dig deeper into the mystery of Carrie's death.

25:29 Speaker 2: They picked apart in consistencies. Why would Carrie leave two

25:33 Speaker 2: pills in the bottle? Why would her suicide note be

25:36 Speaker 2: typed and not handwritten? Their foray into amateur detective work

25:40 Speaker 2: wasn't about revenge. It was about the pursuit of a

25:43 Speaker 2: truth obscured in tragedy and possibly dastardly deceit. While not

25:48 Speaker 2: seasoned detectives, the Charlie's Angels of Waco utilized the insight

25:52 Speaker 2: gleaned from crime shows and their personal experiences. They double

25:56 Speaker 2: checked Matt's alibis, sifted through his trash, and scrutinized phone

25:59 Speaker 2: rang records. Linda discovered Matt's frequent calls to Larry Boles,

26:04 Speaker 2: a name she had not expected. Her mind was ablaze

26:07 Speaker 2: with questions when she heard that a certain young woman

26:09 Speaker 2: named Vanessa Bulls, whose father was Larry, was involved with Matt.

26:14 Speaker 2: With new suspicions in hand, Linda sought the aid of

26:16 Speaker 2: Bill Johnston, a wake a lawyer with a reputation for

26:20 Speaker 2: tackling high risk cases, a man who had fought against

26:23 Speaker 2: the odds, even his own government, to pursue justice. Johnston,

26:27 Speaker 2: recognizing the gravity and oddity of the situation, enlisted experienced

26:31 Speaker 2: law men to dig into the veiled past and murky

26:34 Speaker 2: actions of young Matt Baker. In a case like this,

26:38 Speaker 2: every detail counts, every action is scrutinized, and in that investigation,

26:42 Speaker 2: everyone involved was not just seeking justice, but also a

26:46 Speaker 2: restoration of faith in people, in institutions, and in the

26:50 Speaker 2: very concept of truth. It's a grim reminder that even

26:53 Speaker 2: in the depths of sorrow and tragedy, vigilance must never waver,

26:57 Speaker 2: Otherwise truth may slip away, lost in the fog of

27:01 Speaker 2: pain and confusion. If Matt Baker was truly innocent, then

27:04 Speaker 2: the fog would lift, revealing nothing but sorrow. But if

27:07 Speaker 2: he wasn't, the questions that haunted Linda and her sisters

27:10 Speaker 2: would ignite a fire bright enough to pierce through any darkness.

27:14 Speaker 2: The saga surrounding the death of Carrie Baker and the

27:17 Speaker 2: subsequent arrest of Matt Baker possesses all the elements of

27:20 Speaker 2: a dark modern day morality play. Let's begin with the

27:24 Speaker 2: seemingly incontestable expertise that came into play. Attorney Bill Johnston

27:29 Speaker 2: commissioned the services of two seasoned professionals to delve into

27:32 Speaker 2: the mysteries surrounding Carrie's death. David Stafford, a former head

27:36 Speaker 2: of toxicology, arrived at a startling conclusion there were no

27:39 Speaker 2: traces of the drugs in Carrie's stomach. Obviously, he said,

27:43 Speaker 2: drugs didn't kill her. Johnston then enlisted Tom bebl an

27:47 Speaker 2: expert in homicide crime scenes. Bebel scrutinized the photos taken

27:50 Speaker 2: on the night of Carrie's death and noticed significant bruising

27:53 Speaker 2: around her lips. In his view, the bruising could have

27:56 Speaker 2: resulted from someone using a pillow to suffocate her. Moreover,

27:59 Speaker 2: the paramedic on the scene observed that Carrie displayed signs

28:02 Speaker 2: of lividity, a post mortem discolouration that called into question

28:06 Speaker 2: Matt's timeline. Yet, despite these findings conclusive, though they seemed

28:11 Speaker 2: at least in indicating that Carrie had not taken her

28:13 Speaker 2: own life, or at least not in the manner previously believed,

28:17 Speaker 2: the wheels of justice turned agonizingly slow. Months elapsed without

28:22 Speaker 2: charges against Matt, leaving room for conjecture. Did the Hewet

28:26 Speaker 2: Police department doubt the new evidence or were they simply

28:29 Speaker 2: reluctant to admit their initial investigation had been flawed. It

28:32 Speaker 2: was only after a public uproar and pressure from Matt Coffin,

28:36 Speaker 2: a seasoned Texas ranger, that an arrest was finally made.

28:40 Speaker 2: By this time, Matt had taken a ministerial role at

28:43 Speaker 2: a university and was working as a substitute teacher. His

28:46 Speaker 2: community was divided. Some saw him as a wonderful person,

28:50 Speaker 2: others viewed him with suspicion. A fundraiser and hundreds of

28:53 Speaker 2: messages of support seemed to underscore the community's conflicting sentiments.

28:58 Speaker 2: Matt's own words add yet another of complexity. He denied

29:01 Speaker 2: having an affair with Vanessa Bulls, to whom he had

29:04 Speaker 2: grown close after Carrie's death. When questioned about reports suggesting

29:07 Speaker 2: he was looking at engagement rings, Matt clarified that the

29:10 Speaker 2: jewelry store visit was to buy earrings for his daughter.

29:13 Speaker 2: He said he had searched for overdose by sleeping pill

29:16 Speaker 2: out of concern for Carrie's increasing use of the medication.

29:19 Speaker 2: As for the mysterious disappearance of his computer, Matt claimed ignorance.

29:23 Speaker 2: His legal defense, orchestrated by Guy James Gray, looked robust.

29:27 Speaker 2: According to Gray, the autopsy did not produce any evidence

29:30 Speaker 2: that a pillow was used in suffocation. He attributed the

29:32 Speaker 2: bruise on Carrie's mouth to the oxygen mask used by paramedics,

29:35 Speaker 2: a claim that further muddied the waters. Yet, as the

29:38 Speaker 2: wheels of justice inched forward, the case elicited a collective

29:41 Speaker 2: introspection among those who knew Matt and Carrie. The moral

29:45 Speaker 2: and emotional reckoning was palpable. Friends and family members voiced regret, guilt,

29:49 Speaker 2: and even betrayal. Some, like Kimberly Barry, felt so violated

29:54 Speaker 2: by Matt that they abandoned their faith. Vanessa Bulls herself

29:57 Speaker 2: admits regret over allowing Matt into her life. But perhaps

30:00 Speaker 2: the most chilling and perplexing moment arrives when Matt likens

30:04 Speaker 2: his story to that of Joseph in the Old Testament,

30:06 Speaker 2: a man betrayed by his family and wrongly imprisoned, who

30:10 Speaker 2: returns to aid the very people who sought his downfall

30:13 Speaker 2: quote and then he came back and helped the family

30:15 Speaker 2: that had tried to destroy him unquote. Matt said, It's

30:19 Speaker 2: a tale that evokes the extremes of human emotion and

30:21 Speaker 2: moral ambiguity. It's a narrative punctuated by both doubt and conviction,

30:25 Speaker 2: where forensic science, faith, and human psychology collide in an

30:29 Speaker 2: unsettling tableau. What we're left with is not just a

30:32 Speaker 2: who done it, but a complex web of societal and

30:35 Speaker 2: individual dilemmas that leaves a community torn asunder, each member

30:40 Speaker 2: wrestling with their own moral compass in a dimly lit room,

30:43 Speaker 2: where the air was thick with emotional tension. Matt's eyes

30:47 Speaker 2: welled up. His gaze was a window into a world

30:50 Speaker 2: of personal anguish and soul searching. I have said a

30:53 Speaker 2: prayer asking God to forgive the Doolans, he confessed, with

30:56 Speaker 2: palpable pain in his voice. And I have prayed for

30:59 Speaker 2: God to let me forgive them. But I don't blame them.

31:03 Speaker 2: I understand that they're hurting so deep inside that the

31:05 Speaker 2: only way for them to deal with it is to

31:07 Speaker 2: lash out at me. This was no ordinary admission. Matt,

31:11 Speaker 2: seemingly weighed down by the complexities of life and the

31:13 Speaker 2: looming specter of severe legal repercussions, was demonstrating an extraordinary

31:19 Speaker 2: act of empathy. Here was a man, possibly facing a

31:22 Speaker 2: life altering sentence, extending understanding towards those who might be

31:26 Speaker 2: instrumental in his downfall. In that moment, he's shone a

31:29 Speaker 2: light on a deeper truth about human nature. People often

31:32 Speaker 2: project their pain onto others as a form of emotional

31:35 Speaker 2: self defense. Perhaps the Dulans, plagued by their own unspoken sorrows,

31:39 Speaker 2: were so blinded by their suffering that they could see

31:41 Speaker 2: no other course of action. Or perhaps someone was finally

31:45 Speaker 2: on to monstrous Matt Baker, who wriggled and squirmed with

31:49 Speaker 2: as much piety and kindness as he could project, finally

31:53 Speaker 2: impaled on the cold hook of justice. The truth remains

31:57 Speaker 2: to be seen. As the interview neared its a question

32:00 Speaker 2: of profound significance was posed to Matt. What would become

32:04 Speaker 2: of him if the duelans succeeded in their quest and

32:06 Speaker 2: he found himself ensnared within the harsh confines of a prison.

32:09 Speaker 2: The room seemed to hold its breath, the atmosphere charged

32:12 Speaker 2: with the weight of the unanswered query. After what seemed

32:15 Speaker 2: an interminable pause, Matt responded. His voice was a mere whisper,

32:19 Speaker 2: but it carried an air of undying conviction. My call

32:23 Speaker 2: will never change. I will always tell people about God.

32:26 Speaker 2: He then stood, his eyes still damp from emotional torrents within.

32:30 Speaker 2: With a steady, deliberate tone, he recited a verse from

32:33 Speaker 2: the Book of Proverbs. Trust the Lord with all your heart,

32:37 Speaker 2: he said, in all your ways, acknowledge Him, and he

32:39 Speaker 2: will make your path straight. With that solemn proclamation, he

32:42 Speaker 2: offered a handshake as gentle as it was meaningful, and

32:46 Speaker 2: took his leave. Exiting through the door as if carrying

32:48 Speaker 2: the weight of the world on his shoulders. In the

32:51 Speaker 2: cold walls of a Waco court room, as a multitude

32:54 Speaker 2: of journalists from various media outlets furiously scribbled notes, Vanessa

32:59 Speaker 2: bulls onto the witness stand. Her appearance halted everyone's activities

33:03 Speaker 2: for a moment. There she was a striking twenty seven

33:06 Speaker 2: year old language art teacher and sports coach from Harker Heights,

33:10 Speaker 2: her blonde hair cascading over a well fitted gray pantsuit.

33:13 Speaker 2: Matt Baker, the defendant and Vanessa's former lover, looked up,

33:18 Speaker 2: his eyes piercing blue and unblinking, as if caught in

33:21 Speaker 2: the pull of her beauty. But Matt's seemingly serene visage

33:25 Speaker 2: belied the explosive content of Vanessa's testimony. As she spoke,

33:29 Speaker 2: her words meticulously unraveled a tale of manipulation, psychological coercion,

33:34 Speaker 2: and dark plans, all of which she claimed originated with

33:37 Speaker 2: Matt Baker. Vanessa testified that Matt, the charismatic pastor who

33:42 Speaker 2: should have been a moral pillar of the community, had

33:44 Speaker 2: turned her life into a nightmare of secrecy and fear.

33:48 Speaker 2: The two had met back in September two thousand and five,

33:51 Speaker 2: when Vanessa's father joined Crossroads Baptist Church, where Matt was

33:54 Speaker 2: the pastor. A mere three months later, Matt had approached

33:57 Speaker 2: Vanessa to offer her counseling for her recent devoid and

34:00 Speaker 2: soon began making overt advances. Vanessa betrayed herself as a

34:04 Speaker 2: vulnerable figure freshly divorced, an easy prey for the pastor

34:07 Speaker 2: who had become her lover and confidante. According to Vanessa,

34:11 Speaker 2: Matt didn't stop at mere flirtation in their counseling sessions.

34:15 Speaker 2: He slowly poisoned the well against his own wife, Carrie,

34:18 Speaker 2: describing her as a deeply depressed woman who had failed

34:21 Speaker 2: as a wife and mother. While Vanessa claimed that Carrie

34:24 Speaker 2: showed no signs of depression, whenever they talked, Matt insisted otherwise,

34:28 Speaker 2: sowing seeds of doubt in her mind. As their relationship

34:31 Speaker 2: escalated into a physical affair, Matt's tone shifted from merely

34:34 Speaker 2: disparaging his wife to outright discussing plans to kill her.

34:38 Speaker 2: Details were chillingly specific. He talked of spiking milkshakes and

34:42 Speaker 2: faking suicides. Vanessa testified that Matt had explored obtaining chloroform online,

34:47 Speaker 2: and had even attempted to procure date rape drugs in

34:50 Speaker 2: a decrepit corner of Waco. The extent of Matt's deceit

34:53 Speaker 2: and manipulation was staggering. He went on date nights with Carrie,

34:57 Speaker 2: even while discussing how he despised intimate moment with her,

35:00 Speaker 2: calling her a fat bitch. While recounting those experiences to Vanessa,

35:05 Speaker 2: man this is tough. Matt continued to live a double life,

35:08 Speaker 2: presenting himself as a caring husband during counseling sessions with

35:12 Speaker 2: Carrie while divulging his dark secrets to Vanessa. It was

35:15 Speaker 2: a narrative filled with twisted irony, almost Shakespearean in its treachery. Vanessa,

35:21 Speaker 2: by her own admission, stayed silent about these ominous confessions

35:24 Speaker 2: for years. Ashamed and afraid, she confided neither in the

35:27 Speaker 2: police nor in her own family about what she knew.

35:30 Speaker 2: It was only now, in a courtroom filled with spectators

35:33 Speaker 2: and media, that she laid bare the layers of lies

35:35 Speaker 2: and manipulation, casting a dark cloud over the charismatic pastor's reputation.

35:41 Speaker 2: Matt listened, pen in hand, jotting down notes. He remained composed,

35:45 Speaker 2: almost stoic, yet the weight of Vanessa's words hung in

35:48 Speaker 2: the air, painting him an increasingly sinister light. Whether Vanessa's

35:52 Speaker 2: shocking claims would be the decisive factor in the case

35:54 Speaker 2: remained to be seen, but there was no question that

35:57 Speaker 2: her testimony had added an electrifying charge to the proceedings,

36:00 Speaker 2: one that could potentially alter the course of many lives,

36:03 Speaker 2: including her own. By late March, a chilling atmosphere had

36:07 Speaker 2: enveloped Vanessa's life, as Matt confided in her his bone

36:11 Speaker 2: chilling decision he would murder his wife Carrie on one

36:14 Speaker 2: of their date nights and cunningly staged as a suicide. Matt,

36:18 Speaker 2: claiming to be worn down by Carrie's depression, rationalized his

36:22 Speaker 2: brutal choice. On the fateful morning of April eighth, Vanessa

36:25 Speaker 2: found herself roused awake by her mother at the Bull's residence.

36:29 Speaker 2: The news that Carrie had met her demise the previous

36:31 Speaker 2: night hung heavy in the air. Vanessa still in disbelief.

36:35 Speaker 2: I was shocked, she said, because part of me didn't

36:37 Speaker 2: really think he was going to go through with it.

36:39 Speaker 2: She accompanied her parents to the Baker's home to express

36:41 Speaker 2: their condolences. As their eyes met Matt winked at her,

36:46 Speaker 2: a subtle yet horrifying affirmation of his sinister act. Days

36:51 Speaker 2: dragged into a disquieting haze. As Vanessa attended Carrie's funeral

36:55 Speaker 2: five days later, she found herself alone with Matt. This

36:58 Speaker 2: would be the one and only time he would divulge

37:00 Speaker 2: the grotesque details of Carrie's murder, details that would be

37:03 Speaker 2: forever etched in Vanessa's mind. Matt had meticulously planned each step.

37:08 Speaker 2: He emptied sex stimulus capsules that Carrie had been purchased

37:11 Speaker 2: for improving her libido, and filled them with ambience stolen

37:15 Speaker 2: from Vanessa's mother's medicine cabinet. After administering alcohol alongside the

37:19 Speaker 2: adulterated capsules, he awaited Carrie's impending on consciousness. Then came

37:24 Speaker 2: the moment he had planned, but one he had hardly

37:26 Speaker 2: prepared for. He planted a farewell kiss on Carrie's forehead

37:30 Speaker 2: and uttered, give Cassidy a kiss for me. He then

37:33 Speaker 2: pressed the pillow against Carrie's face. He held it there

37:35 Speaker 2: until he thought she was gone, but Carrie took one

37:38 Speaker 2: last desperate gasp for air with an expletive oh shit.

37:43 Speaker 2: Matt reinstated the pillow over her face. This time, clenching

37:46 Speaker 2: his hand into a fist to ensure her suffocation. The

37:49 Speaker 2: malice was calculated, the act harrowing, and the emotional toll immeasurable.

37:54 Speaker 2: A husband's betrayal in a lover's complicity wove a macab

37:58 Speaker 2: tapestry that shredded them more oral fabric we expect in relationships.

38:02 Speaker 2: Matt's manipulation prayed not only on Carrie, but also on Vanessa,

38:06 Speaker 2: trapping her in a snare of guilt and fear. Vanessa's

38:09 Speaker 2: ordeal was a haunting reminder of the lengths to which

38:11 Speaker 2: a person can go when masked by deceit and misguided justification.

38:16 Speaker 2: As Matt finished disclosing the haunting details of the night,

38:19 Speaker 2: he ended Carrie's life to Vanessa. He then claimed that

38:22 Speaker 2: after the gruesome act, he had crafted an elaborate scheme

38:25 Speaker 2: to cover his tracks. He said he typed a counterfeit

38:28 Speaker 2: suicide note on their bedroom computer. Then, in a chilling

38:31 Speaker 2: touch of forethought, he took Carrie's lifeless hand and brushed

38:34 Speaker 2: it over the note to leave her fingerprints on it.

38:37 Speaker 2: He positioned the note on the bedside table, surrounded by

38:39 Speaker 2: a bottle of real ambient and the remains of their

38:42 Speaker 2: alcoholic drinks. He locked the door, exited, and to solidify

38:46 Speaker 2: his alibi, rented a film called When a Man Loves

38:49 Speaker 2: a Woman. He then returned to bust open the bedroom

38:52 Speaker 2: door and waited an agonizing minute before making the nine

38:55 Speaker 2: one one call. Matt looked at Vanessa with cold conviction

38:58 Speaker 2: and said to her this course from Vanessa's testimony. You

39:02 Speaker 2: know that you're stuck here with me right because you

39:04 Speaker 2: know about it, and you're just as guilty as I am.

39:07 Speaker 2: He proclaimed that God had forgiven him tapping into his

39:10 Speaker 2: role as a preacher to manipulate the spiritual narrative surrounding

39:13 Speaker 2: his sin. In the subsequent weeks, Matt and Vanessa's relationship deepened,

39:17 Speaker 2: and they even began to discuss marriage, But the cracks

39:20 Speaker 2: were already appearing. Vanessa felt her grip on reality slipping,

39:24 Speaker 2: her fears fantastasizing. Despite the facade of a preacher, Matt

39:28 Speaker 2: had darkly intimated that Vanessa better remained silent about what

39:32 Speaker 2: she knew. He sent her song lyrics that weren't outright threats,

39:36 Speaker 2: but the implication was unmistakable. Quote, I'll keep you my

39:39 Speaker 2: dirty little secret. Don't tell anyone or you'll be just

39:43 Speaker 2: a little regret unquote. Vanessa's love had curdled into a

39:47 Speaker 2: desperate need for security. I wasn't attracted to Matt. I

39:50 Speaker 2: just wanted to be safe, she revealed. And then she

39:53 Speaker 2: received a phone call that shifted the landscape of her

39:55 Speaker 2: moral dilemma. Carrie's body was going to be exhumed for

39:58 Speaker 2: private investigation. Matt's reaction was chilling, in a quote creepy

40:02 Speaker 2: tone unquote, he warned her not to tell the investigators anything.

40:07 Speaker 2: The Cloak and Dagger relationship took another twist when Matt

40:10 Speaker 2: decided to relocate, suggesting Vanessa come with him. With that

40:14 Speaker 2: Vanessa had reached her breaking point. She called him to

40:16 Speaker 2: end things, only to hear his desperate, guilt ladened but

40:20 Speaker 2: implicitly threatening plea, I killed my wife for you, and

40:23 Speaker 2: now you're leaving me. You're leaving me. Matt's chilling confession

40:27 Speaker 2: and Vanessa's unsettling moral quandary throw into sharp relief the

40:31 Speaker 2: dangerous intersections of love, manipulation, and moral decay. Matt used

40:36 Speaker 2: his position of trust as a preacher to bend the

40:38 Speaker 2: moral arc of their universe, while Vanessa grappled with the

40:41 Speaker 2: realization that her silence made her complicit, and even as

40:45 Speaker 2: she tried to untangle herself from this knotted mess, the

40:48 Speaker 2: shadows of Matt's actions loomed large, turning their relationship into

40:52 Speaker 2: a chilling anti romance of deceit, guilt, and fear. This

40:56 Speaker 2: web of conflicting emotions, and especially fear, held Vanessa in

40:59 Speaker 2: a Despite opportunities to come clean, she found herself trapped

41:03 Speaker 2: in a vortex of silence and complicity. Contacted by a

41:07 Speaker 2: private investigator on behalf of Carrie's grieving parents, she held

41:10 Speaker 2: firm in her denial. Quote completely denied everything unquote were

41:14 Speaker 2: her exact words. When summoned for an interview by the

41:16 Speaker 2: Hewett Police Department, she maintained her cover, disavowing any knowledge

41:21 Speaker 2: of the affair or the terrible act that ended Carrie's life.

41:24 Speaker 2: Soon after, Matt called her, his voice exuding a creepy aura,

41:29 Speaker 2: and left her on the brink of a panic attack.

41:31 Speaker 2: It was a moment that might have pushed many to

41:33 Speaker 2: their ethical limits, but Vanessa, seemingly cornered, told him to

41:37 Speaker 2: turn himself in. Matt's response was an unsettling repetition. God,

41:42 Speaker 2: he said, has forgiven me for years, even As the

41:45 Speaker 2: curtain slowly began to lift on Matt's heinous crime, Vanessa

41:49 Speaker 2: remained steadfast in her refusal to speak out. As late

41:52 Speaker 2: as January two thousand and nine, she was still silent,

41:55 Speaker 2: gripped by the bone chilling fear that Matt could take

41:57 Speaker 2: her life as easily as he had taken his wife,

42:00 Speaker 2: Terrified that Matt would quote put a bullet in her

42:03 Speaker 2: head unquote, she told the jury. Vanessa's predicament reflects a

42:07 Speaker 2: societal trap in which the vulnerable often find themselves ensnared

42:11 Speaker 2: by fear, manipulation, and a distorted moral compass. Her reluctance

42:15 Speaker 2: to expose the truth was fueled not merely by emotional entanglement,

42:18 Speaker 2: but by a genuine dread for her life. It's a

42:21 Speaker 2: haunting manifestation of the insidious power dynamics often in play

42:24 Speaker 2: in such relationships. Here was a woman who, despite being

42:28 Speaker 2: an integral part of this horrifying narrative, was paralyzed by

42:31 Speaker 2: the very real possibility of becoming its next victim. And

42:35 Speaker 2: all the while, Matt leaned into his role as a

42:38 Speaker 2: man of God, weaponizing faith to absolve himself, creating a

42:41 Speaker 2: distorted sanctuary where morality had long since abandoned its post.

42:46 Speaker 2: In a pivotal turn of events, Vanessa finally broke her

42:49 Speaker 2: year's long silence in March two thousand and nine. Although

42:52 Speaker 2: initially only admitting to her affair with Matt when questioned

42:55 Speaker 2: by the police, she secured what's known as testimonial immunity

42:59 Speaker 2: for her appearance before the grand jury investigating Carrie's death. Curiously,

43:03 Speaker 2: she still refrained from disclosing what she knew about the murder,

43:07 Speaker 2: uncertain of her immunity covered such revelations. It wasn't until

43:10 Speaker 2: her courtroom testimony on a Tuesday that the dam finally broke,

43:14 Speaker 2: washing away years of fear and suppressed information. When Guy

43:18 Speaker 2: James Gray, Matt's defense attorney, attempted to poke holes in

43:21 Speaker 2: her account, Vanessa stood resolute, Confronted by her continued involvement

43:25 Speaker 2: with Matt even after Carrie's death, she laid bare the

43:28 Speaker 2: complexities of her situation. Matt had warped her mind, and

43:32 Speaker 2: she was afraid for her life and her daughter's life.

43:34 Speaker 2: I knew what he was capable of. When pressed further

43:37 Speaker 2: by Gray on why she should be believed, Vanessa fired back,

43:41 Speaker 2: what do I have to gain from this? Right? Now

43:43 Speaker 2: I could lose my job as a teacher. She conveyed

43:45 Speaker 2: her view that Matt had been masquerading as a man

43:48 Speaker 2: of God while committing atrocities, insisting that it was time

43:51 Speaker 2: for him to face justice, and yes, she is correct.

43:55 Speaker 2: Gray then broached the subject of whether she was concerned

43:57 Speaker 2: about Child Protective Services taking her child away. No, said Vanessa,

44:02 Speaker 2: and then punctuated her testimony with this gut wrenching statement.

44:06 Speaker 2: He victimized me, he victimized Carrie, he victimized his girls,

44:11 Speaker 2: and he thinks he can do it again. He thinks

44:13 Speaker 2: he can do it again. She disclosed that the fear

44:16 Speaker 2: of Matt was so palpable that she kept a crystal

44:19 Speaker 2: nail file by her side at night, a grim token

44:22 Speaker 2: of the threat she believed he still posed. The courtroom

44:26 Speaker 2: drama highlighted an uncomfortable reality, the struggle for justice in

44:29 Speaker 2: a society where manipulation, fear, and power imbalances can thwart

44:33 Speaker 2: the truth. Vanessa acknowledged her fault in remaining silent for

44:36 Speaker 2: so long. Finally speaking up served as a moment of catharsis.

44:41 Speaker 2: Everything has now been said, she testified, I washed my

44:44 Speaker 2: hands clean. Well, I'm not sure that her hands are

44:47 Speaker 2: completely clean, but certainly the guilt she bears is a

44:52 Speaker 2: minnow to a blue whale compared to that of Matt Baker.

44:56 Speaker 2: After Vanessa's testimony, the courtroom's atmosphere was electric, heavy with

45:00 Speaker 2: the weight of impending judgment. Everyone waited for what they

45:03 Speaker 2: presumed would be the dramatic climax, Matt Baker taking the stand,

45:07 Speaker 2: but it never happened. His defense attorney guide James Gray,

45:10 Speaker 2: opted against it, a glaring admission that their defense was crumbling.

45:14 Speaker 2: Closing arguments were soon to follow, and the walls seemed

45:17 Speaker 2: to close in around Matt, the former Baptist minister whose

45:21 Speaker 2: future once seemed so promising. Then the moment everyone had

45:25 Speaker 2: been waiting for arrived on January twentieth, twenty ten. The

45:29 Speaker 2: jury came back with a verdict that resounded like a

45:32 Speaker 2: gabble strike, sealing Matt's fate. Guilty, He was sentenced to

45:36 Speaker 2: sixty five years to life for the calculated murder of

45:39 Speaker 2: his wife, Carrie. Any glimmer of a hope for a

45:42 Speaker 2: reprieve was extinguished in July twenty twenty when a judge

45:46 Speaker 2: flatly denied Matt's motion for a new trial. The man

45:49 Speaker 2: who once stood at the pulpit now resides behind bars.

45:54 Speaker 2: He remains confined to the Huntsville State Prison in Huntsville, Texas,

45:58 Speaker 2: until next time. I'ms Evan Odelberg and this has been

46:03 Speaker 2: kind of murdery