American Monsters: Matt Baker

0:00 Speaker 1: Warning, Kind of Murdery contains adult themes, explicit language, and descriptions of violence. It is not suitable for anyone, and we recommend you stop listening now.

0:20 Speaker 2: True crime with a dash of the paranormal, the garish, the strange, in the darkly comic. I'm zevn Odelberg, host of kind of Murdery, a podcast that's about more than just murder. It's my very own pocket dimension, home to a curated collection of bizarre and compelling stories, the unsolved, the unsettling, and the unbelievable. I cover it all just so long as it's kind of Murdery, that's the truth. Just like it says in the intro, I am zevn Odelberg, and this is kind of Murdery. Got a story for you today about a small town monster having one hell of a midlife crisis, and I'm going to jump right into it.

0:59 Speaker 2: So if you're ready, please join me as we uncover what truths we can and solve what mysteries we may. Kind of murders, the devil lurks behind the cross. The Murder of Carrie Baker starts now in the city of Wago, Texas on April tenth, two thousand and six. The atmosphere was dense with a sense of loss and melancholy. The occasion was the funeral of Carrie Baker, a devoted wife to a Baptist minister named Matt and a respected third grade teacher. The gathering was so sizable that it had to be moved to one of the city's larger funeral homes rather than the cozy confines of Crossroads Baptist, where Matt Baker was a preacher.

1:49 Speaker 2: The crowd overflowed, filling up not just the seats but also the aisles with folding chairs. Some mourners were relegated to standing positions along the back walls or peering in from the foyer. Him if you want Me to reverberated through the air, sung by a soloist, evoking the struggle and pain that mark human existence. Steve Sadler, a lecturer in the religion department at Baylor University, led the service. He referenced verses from Carrie's own Bible that spoke of God's boundless love versus Carrie herself had underlined.

2:19 Speaker 2: This was a woman who had made her presence felt not just in her church where she spearheaded children's programs, but also in the local elementary school where she taught third grade, and yet an unspoken weight hung heavy in the room. Carrie Baker, just thirty one years old, had struggled every year around late March, grappling with insurmountable grief. It was the anniversary of the loss of her second child, Cassidy, who had died seven years earlier from brain cancer. Each year, the anguish was so great that Carrie would sequester herself at home, spending her days in bed watching old videos of Cassidy's innocent crawl across the floor.

2:54 Speaker 2: This year, the burdens seemed to have become unbearable. According to the police report, Carrie had left a type note on her bedside table and overdosed on sleeping pills. The note was achingly simple, yet profoundly haunting. It said, quote, I want to give Cassidy a hug. I need to feel her again unquote. The narrative that permeated the funeral service was of a life consumed by grief. In the wake of Carrie Baker's funeral, the community turned its gaze toward Matt, her husband, a minister of just thirty five years old.

3:24 Speaker 2: He sat in the front row at the service, his demeanor a tableau of inconsolable sorrow. When he lifted his head from his hands, his eyes, a light blue hue that was almost startling, met the congregation's gaze. After the eulogy, Matt found the strength to stand beside the pulpit, his two remaining daughters flanking him. With each hug and expression of condolences he received, he assured the congregation that he'd be back to preach on the most hopeful day of the Christian calendar, Easter, Sunday.

3:51 Speaker 2: God has not abandoned me, he whispered to one close friend. He will give me the strength to carry on. In the days that followed, Matt was compared to the biblical figure of Job, a man who remained steadfast in his faith despite unimaginable trials. The church community circled around him. Emails and letters from fellow ministers flooded in commending his unwavering devotion. His congregation offered practical help, chores, meals, and even an offer from one woman to teach him how to style his daughter's hair.

4:19 Speaker 2: But something unsettling began to be murmured. About a month later, rumors surfaced that Carrie's mother, Linda Doolan, backed by her sisters and niece, was conducting her own investigation into Carrie's death. The whispers intensified when word got out that Linda and her husband Jim, had engaged a lawyer and private investigators. This was puzzling to many, after all, the Hewett police had been convinced enough of Carrie's suicide that they hadn't even requested an autopsy. Then in September, the whisperings finally found footing in shocking reality.

4:48 Speaker 2: Based on findings by Linda and her cohort. Dubbed the Charlie's Angels of Waco by some, the police reversed their initial judgment. Matt Baker was arrested and charged with the murder of his wife, Carrie. The allegations were as grim as they were stunning. Matt was accused of drugging Carey with medication and alcohol before suffocating her with a pillow or similar item. The revelation struck at the very core of the Waco Baptist community, a place often referred to as Jerusalem on the Brazos, home to Baylor University, the world's largest Baptist educational institution and a veritable patchwork of Baptist churches.

5:24 Speaker 2: Waco epitomized a community of faith. Paul Stripling, a prominent pastor and the former head of the Waco Baptist Association, summed it up saying, Waco is where lives revolve around churches. It's a city where heads bow in prayer over restaurant tables. This is not a place where anyone expects to hear that a pastor, especially one of our Baptist pastors, could be accused of murdering his wife. The appalling turn of events sent ripples of disbelief and confusion through a community that until then had prided itself on its spiritual fortitude.

5:54 Speaker 2: What had started as a tragic tale of loss had transmuted into a dark narrative of so suspicion, casting a shadow over a community and a faith that had thrived on the strength of its conviction. Murder wasn't the sole allegation that shook the very core of Waco, Texas. Linda Doolan, a fifty four year old college professor, along with her team of private investigators, and of course, Linda is also Carrie's mother, an earth alarming information about Matt Baker. According to her, the pastor had led a double life.

6:23 Speaker 2: One is a sexual predator, targeting teenage girls and women. Disturbingly, there was even an incident during his student days at Baylor where he was accused of attempted sexual assault. Linda dropped a bombshell by suggesting that Matt's motive for murdering her daughter might have been two fold, saying, perhaps Matt chose to end my daughter's life because he had fallen her a new romantic interest, a twenty four year old single mother attending his church, Linda speculated, or it might have been because Carrie had discovered his other life and posed a threat of exposing him, regardless he wanted her gone.

6:54 Speaker 2: The fallout was instantaneous and massive. The Waco Tribune Herald, normally a subdued publication, splashed the allegations across its front page suicide murder, It's a mystery. Channon Gamble, a local housewife, even launched a website to keep the community updated on every twist and turn of the case. The media circus reached a fever pitch with television crews from ABC's twenty twenty in CBS's forty eight Hours descending upon Waco to get the inside scoop. Amid the chaos, Kimberly Barry, a thirty four year old married mother, voiced the incredulity that gripped many.

7:26 Speaker 2: Matt was an incredible pastor. His sermons spoke directly to me. Now I'm left feeling utterly disillusioned, she lamented. Could it be that a man who appeared so devout was actually someone else? Entirely for the faithful in Waco? This wasn't merely another headline. It was a moral quandary, an existential dilemma ripped right off the pages of the Bible. Was Matt Baker a man of God unfairly targeted by vengeful in laws? Or was he, to use Baptist vernacular, a man consumed with demons, a monstrous deviant wrapped in the guise of piety.

7:57 Speaker 2: If the latter were true, how he managed to operate so long under the radar in a city deeply intertwined with faith. The community wrestled with these harrowing questions, finding themselves in a crisis of faith that went beyond any murder investigation. Matt Baker was not the kind of Baptist pastor one would immediately recognize from central casting. Instead of an imposing figure with a larger than life persona, Matt stood at the modest height of five foot seven inches, dressed unpretentiously in an economical button down shirt and slacked.

8:27 Speaker 2: His most striking feature was his face. It bore an uncanny resemblance to the sorrowful countenances found in renaissances paintings of early Christian martyrs. When confronted with the pointed question of whether he murdered his wife, Carrie, Matt's eyes welled up with tears. Of course, not I was Carrie's protector, he declared, his voice fraught with emotion, his eyes diverted, locking onto a nondescript wall. The tragedy here, he solemnly proclaimed, is that no one, none of us, understood the depths of her depression.

8:57 Speaker 2: Matt's attorney, Guy James Gray, a man of considerable reputation for his prosecutorial work in the infamous James Bird Dragon case, watched intently. Gray had taken Matt's case pro bono, a powerful statement in itself. When it came to physical evidence, Gray underscored there was nothing implicating Matt. The charges were speculative at best. What's being done to this young man as an injustice? Gray solemnly stated, here was a young man who seemed to exude sincerity and piety, a man who had grown up in a household brimming with the virtues of love and acceptance, surrounded by foster siblings who had faced hardships far beyond their years.

9:33 Speaker 2: Raised by Oscar and Barbara, a quiet, diligent couple, Matt had committed himself to ministry at a young age, eventually attending Baylor University to hone his ministerial skills. A former classmate, now a prominent Waco pastor, was baffled by the allegations against Matt. He seemed like a phenomenal Christian young man, said the pastor, unable to reconcile the Matt Baker he knew with the accusations leveled against him. Yet there was an unsettling event lurking in Matt's past, an incident at Baylor involving a female trainer, a roommate of Billy Graham's granddaughter.

10:05 Speaker 2: No Less, she had accused him of a harrowing attempt at sexual assault. Matt however, shrugged off the event, attributing it to a misunderstanding, even asserting that the university administration had dismissed her claims as unfounded. The allegations against Matt Baker splintered the Waco community, casting doubt on a man many had once seen as a paragon of virtue. Even Kimberly Berry, a parishioner who had found solace in Matt's sermons, was grappling with an unsettling cognitive dissonance. Could a man who so compellingly spoke the word of God be a wolf in sheep's clothing?

10:37 Speaker 2: In Waco, a city rooted in its religious communities, the charges against Matt Baker weren't just scandalous. They were sacrilegious. People grappled with the age old struggle between good and evil, asking themselves whether Matt was an unfairly persecuted man of God or a nefarious predator exploiting his ecclesiastical cover. In a place where faith often informed fact, the community teetered on a moral precipice, its collective conscience weighing the implications of Matt's guilt or innocence. The story was far from ordinary.

11:09 Speaker 2: It was biblical in scope, challenging the community's convictions about sin and redemption, about guilt and innocence, Because the core question remained, who exactly was Matt Baker? Was he a humble servant of God who had tragically lost his wife or was he a man capable of deceit, manipulation, and even murder? And if the latter was true, how had he managed to conceal his dark proclivities in a city like Waco for so long? These were questions that demanded answers as the eyes of a riveted community and a nation remained fixed on the unfolding drama, a drama that tested the very fabric of belief, trust, and community.

11:46 Speaker 2: The narrative of Matt Baker, a Baptist minister from Cerville, Texas, unfurdles like a tightly wound coil, revealing complex layers of intrigue, moral ambiguity, and hints of malfeasance. However, Matt's background is far more complicated than his outward piety suggested. Though his upbringing seemed to be a model for Christian virtues. Raised in a group foster home led by his hard working parents, his history carries questionable episodes that cast shadows on his character. At Baylor University, where he aimed for a career in church recreation, a female trainer accused him of sexual assault.

12:23 Speaker 2: The university's investigation tilted in Matt's favor, and the woman left the school. In another incident post marriage, two separate reports emerged about Matt's inappropriate conduct with women at First Baptist Church, although no formal action was taken. This tale unfolds against a backdrop where ecclesiastical governance is fragmented. The Baptist General Convention of Texas provides no centralized oversight, allowing churches to operate autonomously. This lack of structure can sometimes offer pastors like Matt a cloak of impunity.

12:53 Speaker 2: The Baptist church self imposed silence, perhaps aimed at avoiding defamation suits, iverertinently shield those accused of misconduct, allowing them to ascend in their careers unimpeded. And just to be clear, we know this sort of thing occurs in all kinds of other denominations and organizations where mentor figures are given influence and the trust of the vulnerable. So please don't feel like I'm picking on Baptists. In particular because this story happens to be about Baptists. I'm not going to name drop other denominations or organizations that have also been guilty of inadvertently or otherwise covering up sexual misconduct.

13:33 Speaker 2: But I think we all know who I'm talking about, and so we're left with a character study as complex as a labyrinth. Matt Baker Embodi's contradictions benevolence juxtaposed against potential depravity, devoutness clouded by alleged moral lapses. The gravest among these questions hinges on the mysterious circumstances surrounding his wife, Carrie's life and death. She a young woman with dreams of a Christian family, seems to have believed whole heartly in Matt's virtues. Yet the questionable episodes in Matt's past loom large, a web of complexities that makes his innocence in this case far from conclusive.

14:09 Speaker 2: It is a story marred by tragedy, unanswered questions, and a chilling sense that beneath the facade of religious dedication might lie a darker reality. The devil lurks behind the cross, a maximum coined in the book Don Quixote, by legendary Spanish author Miguel Cervantes. Matt's career, ostensibly dedicated to serving the community and shaping young minds, carried a burdensome undercurrent. To supplement his income, he ran an afterschool youth program at the YMCA. However, in June nineteen ninety six, his life took a turn.

14:43 Speaker 2: He was terminated from his job under disturbing circumstances. The YMCA director had collected written statements from four young female employees claiming that Matt had sexually propositioned them. One of the women recounted Matt telling her quote, I'm horny and I want to have sex with you now, uote, while another narrator that Matt had suddenly said quote, I just want to fuck you right here, right now, touched her pants near her genitalia, and then placed her hands on his crotch. Unfazed by the inquiries, Matt claimed the allegations were false.

15:14 Speaker 2: He argued that the YMCA had terminated him only because they believed he had inquired about one of the employee's sexual exploits with her boyfriend. To his account, it was all a misunderstanding. He defended himself, saying other people were around the skate room who knew that didn't happen, and went on to claim that his line of work naturally exposed him to accusations from females who misunderstood his actions. Seems kind of difficult to misunderstand someone grabbing your crotch and telling you they want to have sex with you right now, But okay, Matt.

15:44 Speaker 2: Matt then pointed out a fact that these remained just allegations, and so they did kept away in files at the YMCA, First Baptist of Waco and Baylor, the institutions that Matt had been associated with. Astonishingly, none of these accusations served just when Matt was accepted into George W. Trueth Theological Seminary at Baylor. Nor did anyone speak up when Matt took his first job as a pastor at Pec Grove Baptist in Gatesville, a church that had a history of nurturing promising preacher boys from Baylor in nineteen ninety eight.

16:16 Speaker 2: Matt's pastoral journey took him to William's Creek Baptist Church in axe Tel. He won hearts. He expanded the children's Sunday school and youth programs, his sermons struck chords. God is looking for people to be transformed, he often declared. Meanwhile, Carrie, described by friends as the perfect pastor's wife, led Bible study groups and opened her heart and home to those in distress. Once a young man struggling with his sexuality approached her, and instead of lecturing, Carrie warmly embraced him and assured God will always love you always.

16:48 Speaker 2: However, it's crucial to note that Carrie seemed unperturbed by the murkiness surrounding Matt. Her mother, Linda, recalled conversations where Carrie defended Matt, dismissing allegations against him as either her misunderstandings or attention seeking fabrications by young women. Her steadfast belief in her husband's innocence, coupled with her radiant spirit, made them appear as the embodiment of a wholesome, young Baptist family. Then, the Baker's life underwent a seismic shift. In late nineteen ninety eight, their second child, Cassidy, was diagnosed with a brain tumor oh Man.

17:21 Speaker 2: Despite ninety days in the hospital and numerous complications, the baby girl lost her battle for life on March twenty second, nineteen ninety nine, and the family's world collapsed. Carrie's grief was tangible, her loss insurmountable. She was seen digging at her daughter's fresh grave with her bare hands, a haunting image of a mother's despair. The church community did their best to support Carrie, who was struggling to get out of bed. Food and flowers and condolences were showered, yet the void was unfillable.

17:51 Speaker 2: An outdoor frayer garden was erected in Cassidy's memory, but the darkness continued to envelop Carrie. Matt recounted a particularly harrowing event. According to him, Carrie ran out of the house with a knife, mumbling about ending things. He said he found her at the church playground, where they both succumbed to tears before he escorted her back home. This saga leaves us with unresolvable tensions and ethical ambiguities. Here is the community that seeks spiritual guidance from individuals whose lives are laden with troubling questions and unresolved allegations.

18:22 Speaker 2: How do institutions entrusted with the moral and spiritual well being of the community fail to hold their leaders accountable. The story raises unsettling questions about systemic failure and societal neglect, leading us to question whether the mask of sanctity worn by some can be the very cloak that hides evil. In an attempt to distance themselves from the haunting memories of their daughter, Cassidy, Matt and Carey shifted their lives, even changing towns. By two thousand, Matt was leading the congregation at First Baptist Church in Retel or it might be Rifel, I'm not sure.

18:56 Speaker 2: Two years later, he took on the role of pastor at North Lake Baptist and day Alice, coinciding with Carrie pursuing a master's degree in leadership and management. Yet, by two thousand and five they returned to Waco, their lives orbiting around the familial roots and the resting place of their lost child. In Waco, Matt found employment as the chaplain for the Waco Center for Youth and also as the pastor of Crossroads Baptist in Hewitt, a church that Carrie's parents frequented. According to Jim Doolan, a senior inspector for a Department of Defense facility and deacon at the church, the congregation was optimistic.

19:30 Speaker 2: Matt was seen as the spark that would invigorate their modest gathering, hopeful to grow in the shadow of a new neighbor across the street. Both Matt and Carrie immersed themselves in their church duties, and Carrie even started teaching at a nearby elementary school. However, signs of persistent, inescapable grief began to surface. Emails sent by Carrie to Matt illustrated her emotional dissent, culminating in a devastating admission. For the first time, she had truly realized their daughter was never coming back, and it felt as if she were reliving her loss anew and it fractured her.

20:02 Speaker 2: As March, the anniversary of Cassidy's passing approach, her emotional state continued to deteriorate. Her best friend, Jill Holtz, a high school drama teacher, noticed Carrie's shift. According to Holtz, Carrie's disposition during that spring was becoming increasingly bleak. A heated argument between the couple exacerbated matters. While praying during Cassidy's last days, Matt asked for a cure and Carrie asked for an end to their daughter's suffering, even if it meant her death. Matt's subsequent emails accused Carrie of essentially willing their daughter to death.

20:35 Speaker 2: God, what an asshole, not that a grieving parent should be judged. I can't imagine what that horrible, horrible sadness is like. But the implication that she had willed her daughter to death, delivered by the one person there to support her, shattered Carrie. She became convinced that Matt was having an affair, adding yet another crack to her fragile emotional state. Despite assurances from Hoats, she sought professional help, visiting a therapist she'd met after Cassie's death. In that session, she shared an unsettling revelation she'd found a mysterious bottle of pills in Matt's briefcase and believed he was plotting her murder.

21:11 Speaker 2: When asked to repeat her claims, she retracted, promising to call back if her quote obsessive thoughts persisted. The call never came. Despite the dark cloud hanging over her, Carrie was seen in high spirits as she interviewed for a new job. Later that day, she, Matt, and their children were at the YMCA witnesses say she was her usual outgoing self, greeting people cheerfully, then tragedy struck. She vanished. A midnight call from Matt to nine one one announced her presumed suicide. This is a tale not just of individual sorrow, but a heartbreaking look into the depths of human emotions, marriage, and the irreversible scars that lost leaves on a family.

21:52 Speaker 2: As the community reconciles with what unfolded, lingering questions remain. What drove Carrie into her own abyss of despair was Matt's coldness, a reaction to his own buried grief, or something more sinister one of the mysterious pills The case reverberates with tragic ambiguity, a haunting reminder that sometimes the heaviest burdens we carry are emotions left unspoken. And on that note, I'd like to mention, as I often do, the free twenty four hour, seven day a week lifeline number nine eight eight that you can call anytime to receive immediate counseling for substance use, mental health or suicidal thoughts.

22:30 Speaker 2: So if you find yourself in a dark, dark place, please do call nine eight eight. Program it into your phone now, and please do remember that you are loved and the world is a better place with you in it. Now, I'm not qualified to help you if you're in a really desperate place, So in that case, God forbid, please do call nine eight eight. But if you'd like to reach out to me, just to connect with someone to share stories of your own personal challenges or your own kind of murdery story, please don't hesitate to do so.

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23:38 Speaker 2: The air was thick, with doubt and grief hanging heavy in the homes and Hearts of Waco, Texas. The paramedics arrived to find Carrie Baker unresponsive, her lips tinged blue, the terrifying hue of mortality. The room told a story, a bottle of Unisom sleepy pills nearly empty, and a note to Matt, her husband, asking him to continue being a loving father to their daughters. Matt had already discovered Carrie's lifeless body locked in their bedroom after coming home from renting a movie. It was the second time he had found a loved one dead.

24:16 Speaker 2: Their daughter, Cassidy, had died years before. The cause of Carrie's death appeared open and shut. Law enforcements seemed to be willing to chalk it up as a tragic suicide. With the type note covered in Carrie's fingerprints and Matt's account that she had been talking about ending her life, it appeared to be a closed case. The authorities even skipped the legally mandated steps, opting not to perform an autopsy. Maybe it was deference to Matt's role as a young pastor, or perhaps they too were caught in the inertia of grief.

24:45 Speaker 2: When Matt returned to his duties at the church, he sermonized about Carrie's triumphal injury, and that's in quotes into heaven. His mother in law, Linda, sat in the pew, her eyes a cascade of tears, her soul yearning for understanding. She wanted to believe that Carrie's death was a tragedy devoid of foul play, but skepticism took root, with Linda and her sisters, each one harboring a growing distrust of Matt. For years, rumors had circulated about Matt's inappropriate advances towards younger women.

25:14 Speaker 2: The whispers, once dismissed, now demanded investigation. Linda and her sisters formed an informal investigation team dubbed the Charlie's Angels of Waco, and they used their wits and intuition to dig deeper into the mystery of Carrie's death. They picked apart in consistencies. Why would Carrie leave two pills in the bottle? Why would her suicide note be typed and not handwritten? Their foray into amateur detective work wasn't about revenge. It was about the pursuit of a truth obscured in tragedy and possibly dastardly deceit.

25:47 Speaker 2: While not seasoned detectives, the Charlie's Angels of Waco utilized the insight gleaned from crime shows and their personal experiences. They double checked Matt's alibis, sifted through his trash, and scrutinized phone rang records. Linda discovered Matt's frequent calls to Larry Boles, a name she had not expected. Her mind was ablaze with questions when she heard that a certain young woman named Vanessa Bulls, whose father was Larry, was involved with Matt. With new suspicions in hand, Linda sought the aid of Bill Johnston, a wake a lawyer with a reputation for tackling high risk cases, a man who had fought against the odds, even his own government, to pursue justice.

26:26 Speaker 2: Johnston, recognizing the gravity and oddity of the situation, enlisted experienced law men to dig into the veiled past and murky actions of young Matt Baker. In a case like this, every detail counts, every action is scrutinized, and in that investigation, everyone involved was not just seeking justice, but also a restoration of faith in people, in institutions, and in the very concept of truth. It's a grim reminder that even in the depths of sorrow and tragedy, vigilance must never waver, Otherwise truth may slip away, lost in the fog of pain and confusion.

27:02 Speaker 2: If Matt Baker was truly innocent, then the fog would lift, revealing nothing but sorrow. But if he wasn't, the questions that haunted Linda and her sisters would ignite a fire bright enough to pierce through any darkness. The saga surrounding the death of Carrie Baker and the subsequent arrest of Matt Baker possesses all the elements of a dark modern day morality play. Let's begin with the seemingly incontestable expertise that came into play. Attorney Bill Johnston commissioned the services of two seasoned professionals to delve into the mysteries surrounding Carrie's death.

27:34 Speaker 2: David Stafford, a former head of toxicology, arrived at a startling conclusion there were no traces of the drugs in Carrie's stomach. Obviously, he said, drugs didn't kill her. Johnston then enlisted Tom bebl an expert in homicide crime scenes. Bebel scrutinized the photos taken on the night of Carrie's death and noticed significant bruising around her lips. In his view, the bruising could have resulted from someone using a pillow to suffocate her. Moreover, the paramedic on the scene observed that Carrie displayed signs of lividity, a post mortem discolouration that called into question Matt's timeline.

28:07 Speaker 2: Yet, despite these findings conclusive, though they seemed at least in indicating that Carrie had not taken her own life, or at least not in the manner previously believed, the wheels of justice turned agonizingly slow. Months elapsed without charges against Matt, leaving room for conjecture. Did the Hewet Police department doubt the new evidence or were they simply reluctant to admit their initial investigation had been flawed. It was only after a public uproar and pressure from Matt Coffin, a seasoned Texas ranger, that an arrest was finally made.

28:40 Speaker 2: By this time, Matt had taken a ministerial role at a university and was working as a substitute teacher. His community was divided. Some saw him as a wonderful person, others viewed him with suspicion. A fundraiser and hundreds of messages of support seemed to underscore the community's conflicting sentiments. Matt's own words add yet another of complexity. He denied having an affair with Vanessa Bulls, to whom he had grown close after Carrie's death. When questioned about reports suggesting he was looking at engagement rings, Matt clarified that the jewelry store visit was to buy earrings for his daughter.

29:13 Speaker 2: He said he had searched for overdose by sleeping pill out of concern for Carrie's increasing use of the medication. As for the mysterious disappearance of his computer, Matt claimed ignorance. His legal defense, orchestrated by Guy James Gray, looked robust. According to Gray, the autopsy did not produce any evidence that a pillow was used in suffocation. He attributed the bruise on Carrie's mouth to the oxygen mask used by paramedics, a claim that further muddied the waters. Yet, as the wheels of justice inched forward, the case elicited a collective introspection among those who knew Matt and Carrie.

29:44 Speaker 2: The moral and emotional reckoning was palpable. Friends and family members voiced regret, guilt, and even betrayal. Some, like Kimberly Barry, felt so violated by Matt that they abandoned their faith. Vanessa Bulls herself admits regret over allowing Matt into her life. But perhaps the most chilling and perplexing moment arrives when Matt likens his story to that of Joseph in the Old Testament, a man betrayed by his family and wrongly imprisoned, who returns to aid the very people who sought his downfall quote and then he came back and helped the family that had tried to destroy him unquote.

30:18 Speaker 2: Matt said, It's a tale that evokes the extremes of human emotion and moral ambiguity. It's a narrative punctuated by both doubt and conviction, where forensic science, faith, and human psychology collide in an unsettling tableau. What we're left with is not just a who done it, but a complex web of societal and individual dilemmas that leaves a community torn asunder, each member wrestling with their own moral compass in a dimly lit room, where the air was thick with emotional tension. Matt's eyes welled up.

30:47 Speaker 2: His gaze was a window into a world of personal anguish and soul searching. I have said a prayer asking God to forgive the Doolans, he confessed, with palpable pain in his voice. And I have prayed for God to let me forgive them. But I don't blame them. I understand that they're hurting so deep inside that the only way for them to deal with it is to lash out at me. This was no ordinary admission. Matt, seemingly weighed down by the complexities of life and the looming specter of severe legal repercussions, was demonstrating an extraordinary act of empathy.

31:19 Speaker 2: Here was a man, possibly facing a life altering sentence, extending understanding towards those who might be instrumental in his downfall. In that moment, he's shone a light on a deeper truth about human nature. People often project their pain onto others as a form of emotional self defense. Perhaps the Dulans, plagued by their own unspoken sorrows, were so blinded by their suffering that they could see no other course of action. Or perhaps someone was finally on to monstrous Matt Baker, who wriggled and squirmed with as much piety and kindness as he could project, finally impaled on the cold hook of justice.

31:56 Speaker 2: The truth remains to be seen. As the interview neared its a question of profound significance was posed to Matt. What would become of him if the duelans succeeded in their quest and he found himself ensnared within the harsh confines of a prison. The room seemed to hold its breath, the atmosphere charged with the weight of the unanswered query. After what seemed an interminable pause, Matt responded. His voice was a mere whisper, but it carried an air of undying conviction. My call will never change.

32:24 Speaker 2: I will always tell people about God. He then stood, his eyes still damp from emotional torrents within. With a steady, deliberate tone, he recited a verse from the Book of Proverbs. Trust the Lord with all your heart, he said, in all your ways, acknowledge Him, and he will make your path straight. With that solemn proclamation, he offered a handshake as gentle as it was meaningful, and took his leave. Exiting through the door as if carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders. In the cold walls of a Waco court room, as a multitude of journalists from various media outlets furiously scribbled notes, Vanessa bulls onto the witness stand.

33:00 Speaker 2: Her appearance halted everyone's activities for a moment. There she was a striking twenty seven year old language art teacher and sports coach from Harker Heights, her blonde hair cascading over a well fitted gray pantsuit. Matt Baker, the defendant and Vanessa's former lover, looked up, his eyes piercing blue and unblinking, as if caught in the pull of her beauty. But Matt's seemingly serene visage belied the explosive content of Vanessa's testimony. As she spoke, her words meticulously unraveled a tale of manipulation, psychological coercion, and dark plans, all of which she claimed originated with Matt Baker.

33:38 Speaker 2: Vanessa testified that Matt, the charismatic pastor who should have been a moral pillar of the community, had turned her life into a nightmare of secrecy and fear. The two had met back in September two thousand and five, when Vanessa's father joined Crossroads Baptist Church, where Matt was the pastor. A mere three months later, Matt had approached Vanessa to offer her counseling for her recent devoid and soon began making overt advances. Vanessa betrayed herself as a vulnerable figure freshly divorced, an easy prey for the pastor who had become her lover and confidante.

34:10 Speaker 2: According to Vanessa, Matt didn't stop at mere flirtation in their counseling sessions. He slowly poisoned the well against his own wife, Carrie, describing her as a deeply depressed woman who had failed as a wife and mother. While Vanessa claimed that Carrie showed no signs of depression, whenever they talked, Matt insisted otherwise, sowing seeds of doubt in her mind. As their relationship escalated into a physical affair, Matt's tone shifted from merely disparaging his wife to outright discussing plans to kill her.

34:38 Speaker 2: Details were chillingly specific. He talked of spiking milkshakes and faking suicides. Vanessa testified that Matt had explored obtaining chloroform online, and had even attempted to procure date rape drugs in a decrepit corner of Waco. The extent of Matt's deceit and manipulation was staggering. He went on date nights with Carrie, even while discussing how he despised intimate moment with her, calling her a fat bitch. While recounting those experiences to Vanessa, man this is tough. Matt continued to live a double life, presenting himself as a caring husband during counseling sessions with Carrie while divulging his dark secrets to Vanessa.

35:15 Speaker 2: It was a narrative filled with twisted irony, almost Shakespearean in its treachery. Vanessa, by her own admission, stayed silent about these ominous confessions for years. Ashamed and afraid, she confided neither in the police nor in her own family about what she knew. It was only now, in a courtroom filled with spectators and media, that she laid bare the layers of lies and manipulation, casting a dark cloud over the charismatic pastor's reputation. Matt listened, pen in hand, jotting down notes.

35:44 Speaker 2: He remained composed, almost stoic, yet the weight of Vanessa's words hung in the air, painting him an increasingly sinister light. Whether Vanessa's shocking claims would be the decisive factor in the case remained to be seen, but there was no question that her testimony had added an electrifying charge to the proceedings, one that could potentially alter the course of many lives, including her own. By late March, a chilling atmosphere had enveloped Vanessa's life, as Matt confided in her his bone chilling decision he would murder his wife Carrie on one of their date nights and cunningly staged as a suicide.

36:18 Speaker 2: Matt, claiming to be worn down by Carrie's depression, rationalized his brutal choice. On the fateful morning of April eighth, Vanessa found herself roused awake by her mother at the Bull's residence. The news that Carrie had met her demise the previous night hung heavy in the air. Vanessa still in disbelief. I was shocked, she said, because part of me didn't really think he was going to go through with it. She accompanied her parents to the Baker's home to express their condolences. As their eyes met Matt winked at her, a subtle yet horrifying affirmation of his sinister act.

36:51 Speaker 2: Days dragged into a disquieting haze. As Vanessa attended Carrie's funeral five days later, she found herself alone with Matt. This would be the one and only time he would divulge the grotesque details of Carrie's murder, details that would be forever etched in Vanessa's mind. Matt had meticulously planned each step. He emptied sex stimulus capsules that Carrie had been purchased for improving her libido, and filled them with ambience stolen from Vanessa's mother's medicine cabinet. After administering alcohol alongside the adulterated capsules, he awaited Carrie's impending on consciousness.

37:23 Speaker 2: Then came the moment he had planned, but one he had hardly prepared for. He planted a farewell kiss on Carrie's forehead and uttered, give Cassidy a kiss for me. He then pressed the pillow against Carrie's face. He held it there until he thought she was gone, but Carrie took one last desperate gasp for air with an expletive oh shit. Matt reinstated the pillow over her face. This time, clenching his hand into a fist to ensure her suffocation. The malice was calculated, the act harrowing, and the emotional toll immeasurable.

37:54 Speaker 2: A husband's betrayal in a lover's complicity wove a macab tapestry that shredded them more oral fabric we expect in relationships. Matt's manipulation prayed not only on Carrie, but also on Vanessa, trapping her in a snare of guilt and fear. Vanessa's ordeal was a haunting reminder of the lengths to which a person can go when masked by deceit and misguided justification. As Matt finished disclosing the haunting details of the night, he ended Carrie's life to Vanessa. He then claimed that after the gruesome act, he had crafted an elaborate scheme to cover his tracks.

38:26 Speaker 2: He said he typed a counterfeit suicide note on their bedroom computer. Then, in a chilling touch of forethought, he took Carrie's lifeless hand and brushed it over the note to leave her fingerprints on it. He positioned the note on the bedside table, surrounded by a bottle of real ambient and the remains of their alcoholic drinks. He locked the door, exited, and to solidify his alibi, rented a film called When a Man Loves a Woman. He then returned to bust open the bedroom door and waited an agonizing minute before making the nine one one call.

38:55 Speaker 2: Matt looked at Vanessa with cold conviction and said to her this course from Vanessa's testimony. You know that you're stuck here with me right because you know about it, and you're just as guilty as I am. He proclaimed that God had forgiven him tapping into his role as a preacher to manipulate the spiritual narrative surrounding his sin. In the subsequent weeks, Matt and Vanessa's relationship deepened, and they even began to discuss marriage, But the cracks were already appearing. Vanessa felt her grip on reality slipping, her fears fantastasizing.

39:26 Speaker 2: Despite the facade of a preacher, Matt had darkly intimated that Vanessa better remained silent about what she knew. He sent her song lyrics that weren't outright threats, but the implication was unmistakable. Quote, I'll keep you my dirty little secret. Don't tell anyone or you'll be just a little regret unquote. Vanessa's love had curdled into a desperate need for security. I wasn't attracted to Matt. I just wanted to be safe, she revealed. And then she received a phone call that shifted the landscape of her moral dilemma.

39:56 Speaker 2: Carrie's body was going to be exhumed for private investigation. Matt's reaction was chilling, in a quote creepy tone unquote, he warned her not to tell the investigators anything. The Cloak and Dagger relationship took another twist when Matt decided to relocate, suggesting Vanessa come with him. With that Vanessa had reached her breaking point. She called him to end things, only to hear his desperate, guilt ladened but implicitly threatening plea, I killed my wife for you, and now you're leaving me.

40:24 Speaker 2: You're leaving me. Matt's chilling confession and Vanessa's unsettling moral quandary throw into sharp relief the dangerous intersections of love, manipulation, and moral decay. Matt used his position of trust as a preacher to bend the moral arc of their universe, while Vanessa grappled with the realization that her silence made her complicit, and even as she tried to untangle herself from this knotted mess, the shadows of Matt's actions loomed large, turning their relationship into a chilling anti romance of deceit, guilt, and fear.

40:55 Speaker 2: This web of conflicting emotions, and especially fear, held Vanessa in a Despite opportunities to come clean, she found herself trapped in a vortex of silence and complicity. Contacted by a private investigator on behalf of Carrie's grieving parents, she held firm in her denial. Quote completely denied everything unquote were her exact words. When summoned for an interview by the Hewett Police Department, she maintained her cover, disavowing any knowledge of the affair or the terrible act that ended Carrie's life.

41:24 Speaker 2: Soon after, Matt called her, his voice exuding a creepy aura, and left her on the brink of a panic attack. It was a moment that might have pushed many to their ethical limits, but Vanessa, seemingly cornered, told him to turn himself in. Matt's response was an unsettling repetition. God, he said, has forgiven me for years, even As the curtain slowly began to lift on Matt's heinous crime, Vanessa remained steadfast in her refusal to speak out. As late as January two thousand and nine, she was still silent, gripped by the bone chilling fear that Matt could take her life as easily as he had taken his wife, Terrified that Matt would quote put a bullet in her head unquote, she told the jury.

42:05 Speaker 2: Vanessa's predicament reflects a societal trap in which the vulnerable often find themselves ensnared by fear, manipulation, and a distorted moral compass. Her reluctance to expose the truth was fueled not merely by emotional entanglement, but by a genuine dread for her life. It's a haunting manifestation of the insidious power dynamics often in play in such relationships. Here was a woman who, despite being an integral part of this horrifying narrative, was paralyzed by the very real possibility of becoming its next victim.

42:35 Speaker 2: And all the while, Matt leaned into his role as a man of God, weaponizing faith to absolve himself, creating a distorted sanctuary where morality had long since abandoned its post. In a pivotal turn of events, Vanessa finally broke her year's long silence in March two thousand and nine. Although initially only admitting to her affair with Matt when questioned by the police, she secured what's known as testimonial immunity for her appearance before the grand jury investigating Carrie's death. Curiously, she still refrained from disclosing what she knew about the murder, uncertain of her immunity covered such revelations.

43:09 Speaker 2: It wasn't until her courtroom testimony on a Tuesday that the dam finally broke, washing away years of fear and suppressed information. When Guy James Gray, Matt's defense attorney, attempted to poke holes in her account, Vanessa stood resolute, Confronted by her continued involvement with Matt even after Carrie's death, she laid bare the complexities of her situation. Matt had warped her mind, and she was afraid for her life and her daughter's life. I knew what he was capable of. When pressed further by Gray on why she should be believed, Vanessa fired back, what do I have to gain from this?

43:42 Speaker 2: Right? Now I could lose my job as a teacher. She conveyed her view that Matt had been masquerading as a man of God while committing atrocities, insisting that it was time for him to face justice, and yes, she is correct. Gray then broached the subject of whether she was concerned about Child Protective Services taking her child away. No, said Vanessa, and then punctuated her testimony with this gut wrenching statement. He victimized me, he victimized Carrie, he victimized his girls, and he thinks he can do it again.

44:12 Speaker 2: He thinks he can do it again. She disclosed that the fear of Matt was so palpable that she kept a crystal nail file by her side at night, a grim token of the threat she believed he still posed. The courtroom drama highlighted an uncomfortable reality, the struggle for justice in a society where manipulation, fear, and power imbalances can thwart the truth. Vanessa acknowledged her fault in remaining silent for so long. Finally speaking up served as a moment of catharsis. Everything has now been said, she testified, I washed my hands clean.

44:45 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure that her hands are completely clean, but certainly the guilt she bears is a minnow to a blue whale compared to that of Matt Baker. After Vanessa's testimony, the courtroom's atmosphere was electric, heavy with the weight of impending judgment. Everyone waited for what they presumed would be the dramatic climax, Matt Baker taking the stand, but it never happened. His defense attorney guide James Gray, opted against it, a glaring admission that their defense was crumbling. Closing arguments were soon to follow, and the walls seemed to close in around Matt, the former Baptist minister whose future once seemed so promising.

45:23 Speaker 2: Then the moment everyone had been waiting for arrived on January twentieth, twenty ten. The jury came back with a verdict that resounded like a gabble strike, sealing Matt's fate. Guilty, He was sentenced to sixty five years to life for the calculated murder of his wife, Carrie. Any glimmer of a hope for a reprieve was extinguished in July twenty twenty when a judge flatly denied Matt's motion for a new trial. The man who once stood at the pulpit now resides behind bars. He remains confined to the Huntsville State Prison in Huntsville, Texas, until next time.

46:00 Speaker 2: I'ms Evan Odelberg and this has been kind of murdery