American Paladin: A Tribute to Jerry Paulley

0:00 Speaker 1: Warning. Kind of Murdery contains adult themes, explicit language, and

0:04 Speaker 1: descriptions of violence. It is not suitable for anyone, and

0:07 Speaker 1: we recommend you stop listening now.

0:11 Speaker 2: I heard true crime with a dash of the paranormal,

0:20 Speaker 2: the garish, the strange in the darkly comic, A podcast

0:24 Speaker 2: that's about more than just murder. It's my very own

0:27 Speaker 2: pocket Dimension, home to a curated collection of bizarre and

0:31 Speaker 2: compelling stories, the unsolved, the unsettling, and the unbelievable. I

0:36 Speaker 2: cover it all just so long as it's kind of murdery. Hey,

0:40 Speaker 2: everybody welcome. I am Zevanoldberg and this is kind of murdery.

0:45 Speaker 2: As I mentioned in yesterday's quick update, it's been a

0:47 Speaker 2: bit of a tough stretch. Now. On the list of

0:50 Speaker 2: people that it's been a difficult time for, my name

0:52 Speaker 2: is actually way down the list, and yet I am

0:55 Speaker 2: still feeling it. On November twenty eighth of this year,

0:58 Speaker 2: Thanksgiving dan O, my dear friend and podcasting mentor Jerry Polly,

1:04 Speaker 2: host of Hillbilly Horror Stories, passed away. I hardly think

1:08 Speaker 2: it would be possible to be less thankful for anything

1:11 Speaker 2: on Thanksgiving Day than Jerry's passing. And yet it would

1:15 Speaker 2: be equally impossible to be more thankful for any one

1:19 Speaker 2: than I am for Jerry and his wife Tracy and

1:22 Speaker 2: the influence they've had on my life on my podcast.

1:25 Speaker 2: But really, I said life before podcasts, because life is

1:28 Speaker 2: the truth of it. I met Jerry and Tracy back

1:31 Speaker 2: in June of two thousand and one when Kind of

1:34 Speaker 2: Murdery was a brand spankin new show, and I reached

1:37 Speaker 2: out to them to have them do a promo for me.

1:40 Speaker 2: I bought some ad time and with a show of

1:43 Speaker 2: their stature and because I felt like there was some

1:45 Speaker 2: similarities between our shows, it seemed like a good place

1:48 Speaker 2: to go. And I didn't expect anything more than the

1:51 Speaker 2: promo that I had paid for. But I got a

1:53 Speaker 2: lot more than a promo. I got a true, true friend. Sure,

1:57 Speaker 2: Jerry promoed my show, but he also agreed to come

2:01 Speaker 2: on and be a guest. He agreed to have me

2:03 Speaker 2: on as a guest. He had me on more than once.

2:05 Speaker 2: He asked me to participate in all of his yearly

2:08 Speaker 2: Halloween specials, which I did just recently. And even more importantly,

2:12 Speaker 2: both he and his wife Tracy were people who when

2:15 Speaker 2: I was struggling or feeling down, or having a hard

2:18 Speaker 2: time with podcasting or just life. I could just reach

2:20 Speaker 2: out to with no excuses, no reasons, and they were

2:23 Speaker 2: always there for me, both of them, like living breathing

2:26 Speaker 2: guardian angels, wanting nothing back but friendship, always giving love

2:32 Speaker 2: and authenticity. I mean, I really don't know what to say.

2:35 Speaker 2: There's not much I could say that would do a

2:37 Speaker 2: man like Jerry justice. Maybe that old cliche only the

2:40 Speaker 2: good die young is true here, because Jerry Paully was

2:44 Speaker 2: truly truly a good man. I know I haven't talked

2:47 Speaker 2: about it much, but I know that mental health advocacy

2:50 Speaker 2: was important to Jerry, and so I'll mention here the

2:53 Speaker 2: free Crisis Online ninety eight that you can call if

2:57 Speaker 2: you're going through a tough time. That's nine eight eight.

3:00 Speaker 2: But I know that Jerry Paully, for me and so

3:02 Speaker 2: many people, was a living, breathing crisis hotline who was

3:06 Speaker 2: so much more than a crisis hotline because he was

3:08 Speaker 2: a true, true friend and he will be missed so

3:12 Speaker 2: so dearly. There's that famous line from Blanche Dubois in

3:16 Speaker 2: a street car named Desire, where she says, I always

3:19 Speaker 2: have relied upon the kindness of strangers. Jerry Paully was

3:23 Speaker 2: a man who did not hesitate to offer true, deep,

3:27 Speaker 2: authentic kindness to strangers, to let those strangers become real friends,

3:32 Speaker 2: to introduce them to other people he liked, so that

3:35 Speaker 2: even more people who had been strangers to each other,

3:38 Speaker 2: and sometimes people that wouldn't think they had much in common,

3:42 Speaker 2: suddenly found themselves good friends, all because of Jerry and

3:46 Speaker 2: his beautiful wife Tracy. And I don't know, I'm really

3:48 Speaker 2: broken up. Like I said, nobody has ever done more

3:51 Speaker 2: for me with less reason to do so. Nobody has

3:53 Speaker 2: ever been there for me as unselfishly as Jerry was.

3:57 Speaker 2: Nobody has ever been willing to share the platform with

4:01 Speaker 2: a newcomer with nothing but fledgling hopes and dreams than

4:04 Speaker 2: Jerry and Tracy were at art. Tracy survives Jerry, and

4:08 Speaker 2: my heart and love and prayers go out to her

4:10 Speaker 2: and all of Jerry's friends and loved ones. I wish

4:13 Speaker 2: I could manage to be more eloquent, but I feel

4:16 Speaker 2: like to some extent, words fail me, except to say

4:19 Speaker 2: that the worlds are pretty fucked up place these days,

4:21 Speaker 2: and sometimes it feels like the people that this world

4:25 Speaker 2: needs the most tragically for us, but maybe not for them.

4:29 Speaker 2: Are the people who leave it as much as he'll

4:31 Speaker 2: be missed, as much as he was needed here. If

4:34 Speaker 2: anyone ever deserved to be in a better place, it's

4:37 Speaker 2: Jerry Polly, although I'm sure he would rather be here

4:40 Speaker 2: with us helping us if he had that choice. There's

4:43 Speaker 2: a go fundme for Jerry that's been set up by

4:46 Speaker 2: Tim Mullens from Triple H Media to help cover Jerry's

4:50 Speaker 2: medical and funeral expenses. I'll post a link to that

4:55 Speaker 2: go fundme in the show notes, and if you're able,

4:58 Speaker 2: and if you feel moved to do so, please donate.

5:01 Speaker 2: There's hardly ever been a more worthy cause. As for me,

5:05 Speaker 2: I'll be donating all the ad revenue from Kind of

5:08 Speaker 2: Murdery starting in the month of October through the end

5:11 Speaker 2: of the year to Jerry's GoFundMe. Now, this is really

5:14 Speaker 2: more of a symbolic gesture than anything, because my show

5:18 Speaker 2: doesn't make much money at all. But considering how instrumental

5:22 Speaker 2: Jerry was and is and his inspiration will always be

5:25 Speaker 2: to whatever success I have in podcasting, and frankly all

5:29 Speaker 2: throughout my life, but certainly certainly podcasting, it seems like

5:33 Speaker 2: a symbolic gesture that's appropriate to make. I'm not sure

5:37 Speaker 2: what else to say except that Jerry, you will be

5:39 Speaker 2: so deeply missed. And now, in honor of Jerry, I'm

5:43 Speaker 2: going to share with you a couple of his wonderful

5:46 Speaker 2: appearances here on kind of Murdery. So if you're ready,

5:49 Speaker 2: kind of Murdery's a tribute to Jerry Paully starts now. Hey, everybody,

6:04 Speaker 2: and welcome to Kind of Murdery Season one, ghost Towns

6:07 Speaker 2: of the Mojave Desert. I'm your host, Zevin Odelberg. Thanks

6:11 Speaker 2: for deciding to be here. We're here today with Jerry Polly.

6:15 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you what was the inspiration for

6:19 Speaker 2: Hillbilly horror story? So did something particular happen in your

6:22 Speaker 2: life that made you decide that this was the show

6:25 Speaker 2: that you wanted to do.

6:27 Speaker 3: When I was twelve thirteen years old, right, you know,

6:31 Speaker 3: we moved into a house and after being there for

6:34 Speaker 3: about a year, it turns out we started having some

6:36 Speaker 3: paranormal activity. Now, looking back, I tend to think a

6:41 Speaker 3: lot of this stemmed from my mother. If you know

6:44 Speaker 3: much about paranormal activity, a lot of times it's calls

6:47 Speaker 3: from a young teen going through pubescence time of their life.

6:52 Speaker 3: There's a lot of angst and emotions and hormones and

6:56 Speaker 3: everything going on, and this energy can sometimes create the

7:00 Speaker 3: things that happen around you. Most of the time that's

7:02 Speaker 3: young women, but for whatever reason, sometimes it can be

7:06 Speaker 3: somebody older if they've got a traumatic experience that's going

7:10 Speaker 3: on in their life. And my mom did at the time,

7:12 Speaker 3: and all this tied in to the time where she

7:14 Speaker 3: started having these experiences, which is why I think that

7:17 Speaker 3: you know, she was involved in a lot of this

7:20 Speaker 3: stuff happening. But we had about five years of paranormal

7:23 Speaker 3: experiences and priests coming in and blessing the house.

7:27 Speaker 2: And oh my goodness, psychics coming.

7:29 Speaker 3: In, and it was kind of kind of crazy. But

7:32 Speaker 3: that five years is what really peaked my interest in

7:34 Speaker 3: the paranormal.

7:35 Speaker 4: I see why your favorite movie is The Exorcist now.

7:38 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that was actually my favorite before that.

7:43 Speaker 2: So, so, was your mother alive at this time or

7:47 Speaker 2: are you or were these paranormal experiences? Did were your

7:50 Speaker 2: mother's ghost?

7:51 Speaker 3: No, what happened? She was alive at the time. My

7:53 Speaker 3: mother was raised. She had a very I'm not going

7:56 Speaker 3: to say abusive, because that's really technically wouldn't be the same.

7:59 Speaker 3: But she had a very rough childhood growing up. Her

8:02 Speaker 3: mother was not around. She was kind of an alcoholic

8:05 Speaker 3: and gone a lot. Her father had left at an

8:07 Speaker 3: early age, so she was a single mom. And you know,

8:09 Speaker 3: for the time she was twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old,

8:12 Speaker 3: she was pretty much raising her brothers and sisters because

8:14 Speaker 3: her mom would go off for two, three, four days

8:16 Speaker 3: at a time and nobody knew where she.

8:18 Speaker 2: Was and so on a vendor or something else.

8:20 Speaker 3: Yeah, so she was pushed into the into adulthood very early.

8:23 Speaker 3: They didn't have much money, and she eventually ended up

8:27 Speaker 3: turning to her grandmother and grandfather on the maternal side

8:31 Speaker 3: and they raised her. So that was in all essence,

8:34 Speaker 3: her mother and father. And when her grandfather passed away,

8:38 Speaker 3: which was right at about a year after moving in

8:39 Speaker 3: that house, it was very traumatic for it was something

8:42 Speaker 3: that she really couldn't get over. And then her grandmother

8:45 Speaker 3: passed away four months later.

8:47 Speaker 2: Oh no, that's awful.

8:49 Speaker 3: Yeah, those two things combined it put her in a situation.

8:53 Speaker 3: And I'll tell you about the very first thing that happened,

8:55 Speaker 3: so you could see how it ties in. We were

8:58 Speaker 3: sitting in the living room and we were watching the

9:00 Speaker 3: seven hundred Club and they had a call in number.

9:03 Speaker 3: She was on the phone talking to someone and far

9:08 Speaker 3: away from us, all the way across the other side

9:10 Speaker 3: of the room. We had a big console television and

9:12 Speaker 3: it had a little pin cushion on there that was like,

9:16 Speaker 3: basically it looked like a recliner, like a chair, but

9:19 Speaker 3: it was just designed to put your pins and your

9:21 Speaker 3: thread and stuff in. We had a bunch of stuff

9:23 Speaker 3: sitting on that I think of Elmber's glue. We had

9:25 Speaker 3: some house numbers where we had just been painting the house,

9:28 Speaker 3: sitting there and as she's on this prayer line, this

9:31 Speaker 3: thing pops up in the air about two feet and

9:35 Speaker 3: it just lands in the floor, scatters everywhere.

9:37 Speaker 2: Whoa.

9:38 Speaker 3: And that was the very first instance, and then it

9:40 Speaker 3: took off from there. So that's what leads me to believe.

9:43 Speaker 3: Like I said, I didn't know this back then, but

9:45 Speaker 3: years later looking back, this is why I think this.

9:48 Speaker 3: I don't necessarily know if it was a demon or

9:50 Speaker 3: a ghost or what it was, or if it was

9:52 Speaker 3: something she was manifestating just because of her anguish at

9:58 Speaker 3: the time.

10:00 Speaker 2: Goodness and so I guess that is that why Poultergeist

10:03 Speaker 2: is not your favorite movie.

10:07 Speaker 3: The remake was horrible, but the good the first one

10:10 Speaker 3: was good.

10:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome. And also besides, you know your show is

10:15 Speaker 2: about horror stories about the supernatural, but it's specifically hillbilly

10:18 Speaker 2: horror stories. So can you talk a little bit about

10:21 Speaker 2: that and why you feel like do you would you

10:25 Speaker 2: say you identify as a hillbilly? And if so why?

10:29 Speaker 3: Originally the thought was it was going to be nothing

10:32 Speaker 3: but Southern ghost stories, and so when coming up with

10:35 Speaker 3: a name Southern, and I was trying to think, okay,

10:38 Speaker 3: do we use ghost stories, We're gonna use horror stories,

10:40 Speaker 3: scary stories, and I landed on horror first, and I thought, okay, well, well

10:44 Speaker 3: can be put in front of it that Southern and

10:47 Speaker 3: hillbilly just came up. It was kind of an alliteration,

10:49 Speaker 3: but it was no real reason other than the fact

10:52 Speaker 3: I thought it was catchy and it fit only because

10:54 Speaker 3: we were doing Southern stories, which six months later, we're

10:57 Speaker 3: doing stories from all over the globes. It really doesn't

10:59 Speaker 3: even fit well either way.

11:02 Speaker 2: It's a great name, it certainly is. And you are

11:06 Speaker 2: you from Kentucky or do you just live in Kentucky now?

11:08 Speaker 3: Now we're born, born, and raised in Kentucky.

11:12 Speaker 2: So, Jerry, do you have a kind of murdery story

11:14 Speaker 2: you want to tell us?

11:15 Speaker 3: I probably have something that fits a little more on

11:18 Speaker 3: topic than what you would probably think I would do.

11:21 Speaker 3: So we're going to go back about eight years ago,

11:24 Speaker 3: possibly nine. At the time, I was doing stand up

11:28 Speaker 3: comedy full time, and I was also doing I was

11:34 Speaker 3: appointed process server in the Louisville, Kentucky area, so I

11:40 Speaker 3: handled not only Jefferson County when it comes to summons

11:44 Speaker 3: AND's or subpoenas, but also for the US district courts,

11:47 Speaker 3: so I could go anywhere in the country and serve

11:50 Speaker 3: subpoenas if need be. Wow, well, I had one. I

11:54 Speaker 3: had to cross the bridge and go over to southern Indiana.

11:57 Speaker 3: It was about an hour and a half away from

11:58 Speaker 3: from Louisville, where I lived at time, and I decided

12:02 Speaker 3: to take my wife over there. These things pretty much

12:05 Speaker 3: I didn't really for the most part, dealing with anything dangerous.

12:09 Speaker 3: Most of these summons is that I would deliver would

12:11 Speaker 3: be credit card bills or hospital bills where they had

12:14 Speaker 3: filed lawsuit and they would try to Garnish. She the

12:17 Speaker 3: person involved, and I just had to serve them the paperwork.

12:20 Speaker 3: But we would get subpoenas that sometimes would be a

12:23 Speaker 3: little more, but it was never anything like the cops

12:26 Speaker 3: should be handling. It was nothing like that. This particular day,

12:30 Speaker 3: it was a subpoena delivered in that involved a lawsuit

12:34 Speaker 3: from an automobile accident that it happened I think like

12:38 Speaker 3: three years earlier, and it was in another state. I

12:41 Speaker 3: think it came from Texas, if I remember correctly.

12:44 Speaker 2: So I get the.

12:45 Speaker 3: Subpoena and I drive out to the house. There's nobody home,

12:52 Speaker 3: so I leave a card and my business card actually

12:55 Speaker 3: has you know, it had all the acronyms andccolades everything

13:00 Speaker 3: on there, so you know, it had my title process

13:03 Speaker 3: Server US District Courts, so it's obvious what it is.

13:06 Speaker 3: And I rode on the back, Hey, give me a call.

13:09 Speaker 3: So they give me a call and set up a

13:11 Speaker 3: time for me to come out. I think it was

13:13 Speaker 3: like six pm that evening, and this was probably one o'clock.

13:17 Speaker 3: So I asked my wife. I'm like, hey, I'm just

13:18 Speaker 3: gonna run out there, and I'd already talked to them.

13:20 Speaker 3: They were completely cool with it, tell me to come out,

13:23 Speaker 3: which is usually the case when I left a card,

13:24 Speaker 3: people would call me and tell me to come out,

13:26 Speaker 3: and it was no big deal. So I tell my wife, Okay,

13:30 Speaker 3: they want me to come out at six o'clock, come

13:31 Speaker 3: on and go with me, because you know, it's an

13:34 Speaker 3: hour and a half drive and it was already six

13:36 Speaker 3: o'clock since I had to come out there, so we

13:38 Speaker 3: went ahead and went together. So I get to the house.

13:42 Speaker 3: The gentleman's outside on a lawnmower, one of the riding lawnmowers,

13:46 Speaker 3: and gets off, shakes my hand, and he says, just

13:50 Speaker 3: go ahead and pull all the way up, if you would.

13:52 Speaker 3: And the way this driveway was set up, it was

13:55 Speaker 3: kind of out and not really in the woods, but

13:57 Speaker 3: it was a little more rural fact that the houses

14:00 Speaker 3: weren't right on top of each other. And at the

14:03 Speaker 3: end of his driveway there was some stacked up wood,

14:06 Speaker 3: there was, you know, just some other stuff. So when

14:09 Speaker 3: you got up there, there was no going forward. You

14:11 Speaker 3: stopped at the end of it and that was it.

14:13 Speaker 3: You had to back.

14:14 Speaker 2: Out, so you were boxed in basically.

14:17 Speaker 3: Well that's what ended up happening because he then nonchalantly

14:22 Speaker 3: backs the after we get out of the car. He

14:24 Speaker 3: not he was cleaning his lawnmower. He gets off now

14:26 Speaker 3: and he's cleaning it off. He's wiping it well. Then

14:28 Speaker 3: he gets up and he just nonchalantly parks it behind

14:30 Speaker 3: our car.

14:32 Speaker 2: Boy.

14:32 Speaker 3: Then his wife comes out of the house with a

14:35 Speaker 3: video camera and they start giving us this lecture about

14:41 Speaker 3: we're not going anywhere. We've got no business being on

14:45 Speaker 3: their property. And you know, of course I'm going through

14:47 Speaker 3: the I've talked to you guys earlier today. You told

14:50 Speaker 3: me to come back. You know what the situation is. Well,

14:53 Speaker 3: you're gonna stay here until my friend from the Sheriff's

14:59 Speaker 3: department gets here. And I'm like, good, call the sheriff's

15:02 Speaker 3: department because I've got every right to be here. I'm

15:05 Speaker 3: serving a federal subpoena. And so this went on, and

15:10 Speaker 3: his wife filming us, and they're telling us they're just

15:13 Speaker 3: going on like these big conspiracy theorists or something, and

15:16 Speaker 3: it's almost like something that you would see, you know,

15:19 Speaker 3: in some of these documentaries out in the woods with

15:22 Speaker 3: these people that have their little cults or whatever going on,

15:26 Speaker 3: and you know, they're telling us, we're the enemies. We've

15:28 Speaker 3: got no business being there. They can't believe that we're there.

15:31 Speaker 3: And I'm like, I'm starting to lose my temper. And

15:35 Speaker 3: you know, I eventually told these these people, I'm like,

15:38 Speaker 3: you know what, you're going to let us out or

15:41 Speaker 3: I'm going to call the police myself, which I'd already

15:45 Speaker 3: started to do. And I said, but I didn't have

15:48 Speaker 3: any phone service. Go go figure, And I was. I

15:51 Speaker 3: was so pissed off about this that I ended up

15:53 Speaker 3: calling Sprint because I was constantly having problems with Sprint

15:56 Speaker 3: at the time, and I ended up calling them saying, dude,

15:59 Speaker 3: your phone serve of a crappy fold service is one thing,

16:01 Speaker 3: but now I was in a dangerous situation and I

16:04 Speaker 3: couldn't call the police.

16:05 Speaker 2: You know. But anyway, long story short, Oh my god.

16:08 Speaker 3: So this guy keeps going. I tell him, I said, look,

16:10 Speaker 3: you know I'm gonna go. This is this is you know,

16:13 Speaker 3: you're holding this hostage. You're holding us against the law.

16:16 Speaker 3: You know, I guesst our will, this is against the law.

16:18 Speaker 3: You can't do this. Nope, nope, I'm not holding you

16:21 Speaker 3: against your will. You're just gonna stay here till the

16:23 Speaker 3: sheriff gets here and then we're gonna talk about it.

16:26 Speaker 3: And so he couldn't get a hold of the sheriff.

16:29 Speaker 3: He kept trying, he kept trying, and he'd left messages

16:32 Speaker 3: for him. Well, eventually, after about thirty minutes, he went

16:36 Speaker 3: ahead and said, you can go ahead and go. I

16:40 Speaker 3: can't go to hoold of the sheriff's department. Once I

16:42 Speaker 3: get a hold of the Sheriff's department and they tell

16:44 Speaker 3: me this is okay, then you can come back. So

16:48 Speaker 3: he moves the lawnmower. We back out of the driveway,

16:51 Speaker 3: we start going down this this little country road, and

16:55 Speaker 3: not even five minutes up the road, here comes a

16:58 Speaker 3: sheriff's car passing. So we stopped and flagged the guy down,

17:04 Speaker 3: and then we're tell him what's happening, and he's like,

17:06 Speaker 3: you got to be kidding me, he said, he said,

17:08 Speaker 3: whoever the guy was, he knew who he was. It

17:10 Speaker 3: wouldn't the guy he was trying to get, but I

17:12 Speaker 3: guess they sent somebody. And he's like, let's go up

17:15 Speaker 3: there together. We're gonna get it straightened down. And then

17:18 Speaker 3: we drove up there with him. He basically lectured the

17:21 Speaker 3: guy about what you can and can't do. And the

17:24 Speaker 3: guy signed a paperwork and we left. But I mean,

17:27 Speaker 3: something that should have been so much keen that turned

17:30 Speaker 3: into kind of a kind of a murdery.

17:31 Speaker 4: Story that is very still gosh, Yes, that's another situation

17:36 Speaker 4: I would want to be in, not at all.

17:38 Speaker 2: Did you know what they were being served for.

17:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was somebody was suing him over a car

17:44 Speaker 3: accident from like three years earlier.

17:46 Speaker 2: Oh right, car accident. But it had become a federal

17:50 Speaker 2: case at this point. Wow.

17:51 Speaker 3: Well, it's only a federal case because they lived in

17:54 Speaker 3: a different city, So it really wouldn't as much a

17:56 Speaker 3: federal case as it was that they had to have

17:59 Speaker 3: somebody u When anytime you cross state lines with a subpoena,

18:03 Speaker 3: it has to be listed as a federal document, so

18:06 Speaker 3: it woun't. It wouldn't that it was like something the

18:08 Speaker 3: FBI was interested in. It was only because they were

18:10 Speaker 3: in a different state and they needed me to be

18:11 Speaker 3: able to serve it.

18:12 Speaker 2: Yeah. That's definitely scary though, to be to be essentially

18:16 Speaker 2: trapped there. And thank goodness, thank goodness, the wife didn't

18:20 Speaker 2: walk out of the house with a shotgun. Thank goodness,

18:22 Speaker 2: she was only shooting you with a video camera right.

18:25 Speaker 3: Right, And they weren't extremely threatening, but they were loud

18:29 Speaker 3: and belligerent. I never really felt like that my life

18:33 Speaker 3: was in danger, and I would have handled it a

18:35 Speaker 3: whole lot different if my wife hadn't been there. But

18:37 Speaker 3: that's what made it a little more concerned that we

18:39 Speaker 3: just both happened to be there. But the film in

18:42 Speaker 3: it and everything just I don't know what they were

18:45 Speaker 3: expecting or what they thought they were gonna catch on film,

18:47 Speaker 3: but they literally seemed like these anti government conspirats that

18:53 Speaker 3: would be living up in the hills or the mountains

18:55 Speaker 3: or something.

18:57 Speaker 2: Oh wow, I would be afraid that one state have

19:00 Speaker 2: told you you were trespassing, that they would try to

19:03 Speaker 2: goad you into doing something that would give you and

19:05 Speaker 2: give them an excuse to shoot you or something. You

19:07 Speaker 2: know that That's what's really kind of scary about that

19:12 Speaker 2: story to me.

19:12 Speaker 5: Yeah, I served for over seven years and I had

19:20 Speaker 5: probably served thousands of papers and subpoenas, and I say,

19:23 Speaker 5: only time I really had a situation where I had

19:27 Speaker 5: any kind of fear that something might go wrong.

19:30 Speaker 4: Wow, Well that's a pretty good track, Recorde.

19:32 Speaker 2: Then you got a splendid record, Yes, exactly.

19:35 Speaker 5: Well.

19:35 Speaker 3: I mean I had some people that were ticked off,

19:38 Speaker 3: that were not happy that I was there, and I've

19:40 Speaker 3: had them grab the paperwork from me and try to

19:42 Speaker 3: tear it up and stuff like that, But I never

19:44 Speaker 3: felt threatened.

19:47 Speaker 2: Right well, and it seems like you said these were

19:50 Speaker 2: tinfoil hat people and probably not terribly bright. I mean,

19:55 Speaker 2: I'm going to trap the subpoena server with my tractor

20:00 Speaker 2: until a law enforcement officer shows up, is not That's

20:04 Speaker 2: not a logical equation that I would put together, you know.

20:09 Speaker 3: I guess I think being out in the kind of

20:11 Speaker 3: in the country like that where they know the people,

20:13 Speaker 3: they just kind of figured that and in in the

20:15 Speaker 3: end that's really kind of what happened anyway. I mean

20:18 Speaker 3: they just basically you can't, you know, you can't do that,

20:21 Speaker 3: and you know, so, I mean in the end, I

20:24 Speaker 3: would have had to press charges or something for a

20:26 Speaker 3: night it happened, so right.

20:28 Speaker 2: Right, Wow, wow, man, you're you're a brave man. Though

20:33 Speaker 2: I definitely would have I definitely would have felt myself

20:36 Speaker 2: pucker a little bit in that situation. Yeah. Well, you know,

20:43 Speaker 2: speaking of speaking of people that make plans that are

20:47 Speaker 2: maybe not the brightest. I think that leads us right

20:50 Speaker 2: into our third story. That would be the story of

20:56 Speaker 2: Kasmer and Ferguson.

20:59 Speaker 4: That's hare it.

21:05 Speaker 2: It's early February nineteen thirty two, and twenty eight year

21:10 Speaker 2: old Lebick, short order cook is manning the griddle at

21:13 Speaker 2: a restaurant in town when he suddenly leaves his job

21:18 Speaker 2: in the middle of the shift to go for a

21:19 Speaker 2: walk in the nearby mountains. Could it have been because

21:24 Speaker 2: Sheriff RL Hill and Deputies Bud Sherman and al Renfro

21:28 Speaker 2: we're looking for him. Let's find out as we trek

21:31 Speaker 2: into the tragic comedy of Kasmer and Ferguson. Why did

21:37 Speaker 2: he suddenly leave his job in the middle of a

21:39 Speaker 2: shift and take off into the mountains? Well, when he

21:44 Speaker 2: comes down out of the mountains, Sheriff's waiting there for him,

21:48 Speaker 2: and they ask Kasmer that exact question. They say, so, Bud,

21:53 Speaker 2: you know you're a cook here at the restaurant in town.

21:55 Speaker 2: What's with just running out, running out on your job

21:59 Speaker 2: to go for a walk. And Kasmer's reply is, well,

22:03 Speaker 2: you know, I I often have these spells come over

22:07 Speaker 2: me where I just need to get a bit of exercise.

22:10 Speaker 2: And when I do, I you know, I got I

22:13 Speaker 2: got bees in my bonnet, I got ants in my pants,

22:16 Speaker 2: and it's it's really quite common for me to just

22:20 Speaker 2: just leave work and go for a hike in the

22:22 Speaker 2: mountains around Lewick, where you guys, you've probably all been

22:27 Speaker 2: more or less to the Grapevine at some point on

22:31 Speaker 2: a road trip, approaching Los Angeles or leaving it, and

22:35 Speaker 2: you know that these are those are not exactly mountains

22:38 Speaker 2: where you think to yourself, oh boy, the nature is

22:40 Speaker 2: just so beautiful and hospitable. What I really need to

22:44 Speaker 2: do in the middle of the afternoon is go for

22:47 Speaker 2: a hike through these desert mountains full of rattlesnakes, grizzly

22:51 Speaker 2: bears and just you know, hot or extremely cold weather.

22:56 Speaker 2: And so they go, oh, yeah, okay, so you just

22:57 Speaker 2: needed some exercise, They said, well, we you know, we

23:01 Speaker 2: wanted to tell you that the Bank of America in Tipton,

23:05 Speaker 2: which was a town about an hour away from Lewock,

23:08 Speaker 2: it was robbed yesterday afternoon of about eleven hundred dollars

23:13 Speaker 2: in silver money. Because again this was a this was

23:17 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two, so you know, silver money was much

23:20 Speaker 2: more common currency than maybe today and they and he goes, oh,

23:25 Speaker 2: really the bank was robbed and they said they said, yeah,

23:29 Speaker 2: yeah it was, but great news we found over half

23:35 Speaker 2: the money, to which okay, you know, and you have

23:39 Speaker 2: to add.

23:40 Speaker 4: And he's thinking, whoops, well what he was.

23:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, because two men robbed the bank, right, they told

23:47 Speaker 2: me found over half the buddy and his reply is, well, gosh,

23:50 Speaker 2: I'm sure happy to hear that. No, you know, he's

23:56 Speaker 2: maybe he's so clever he's playing dumb, or maybe he

24:00 Speaker 2: doesn't it doesn't occur to him that maybe the half

24:03 Speaker 2: the money they found was his.

24:06 Speaker 4: Right, He's like, oh, wow, sucks for my unnamed partner

24:10 Speaker 4: who we haven't yet mentioned.

24:12 Speaker 2: Right, right exactly, Here's what happens. The day of the robbery.

24:16 Speaker 2: Kasmer goes to visit a friend of his in Bakersfield

24:21 Speaker 2: and he says, hey, man, can I borrow your car?

24:24 Speaker 2: You know? And the guy says sure. He says, because

24:27 Speaker 2: he said, can I borrow your car for ten minutes?

24:30 Speaker 2: And the guy says, oh sure, you know. Of course,

24:32 Speaker 2: this was nineteen eighty thirty two, but so there was

24:35 Speaker 2: no uber. But I'm pretty sure that the friend wishes

24:38 Speaker 2: he could have told Kasmir, Hey just take an uber

24:40 Speaker 2: because that ten minutes turns into eight hours later that

24:46 Speaker 2: the car gets returned. Can either of you guess exactly

24:49 Speaker 2: which car Kasmer was borrowing from the friend in Bakersfield?

24:54 Speaker 2: No clue? It was the getaway car for the bank robbery. Yes,

25:02 Speaker 2: so wow, he borrows a car from his friend that

25:07 Speaker 2: he says he's gonna return in ten minutes that he

25:10 Speaker 2: then goes and uses for a bank robbery. So he's

25:14 Speaker 2: got a pissed off friend whose car has disappeared for

25:18 Speaker 2: eight hours, who knows exactly who he is. So these

25:23 Speaker 2: guys go in and they rob this bank, but they

25:28 Speaker 2: tie you got you know that twine twine that's like

25:32 Speaker 2: thin sort of old sailor rope, the kind that you

25:35 Speaker 2: might have in your muckroom, but that like unravels as

25:38 Speaker 2: soon as you want to use it. That that kind

25:40 Speaker 2: of almost like garden twine, right right, So they they

25:44 Speaker 2: tie everybody in the bank up with this garden twine,

25:49 Speaker 2: this this like skinny unraveling rope, and then they managed

25:53 Speaker 2: to steal their eleven hundred dollars worth of silver coins

25:58 Speaker 2: and sort of get away in the getaway car. But

26:01 Speaker 2: their tie up job and the twine itself, as you know,

26:04 Speaker 2: you can kind of rip that stuff apart. Everybody basically

26:07 Speaker 2: escapes from there from their tied up situation immediately and

26:12 Speaker 2: calls the cops more or less right away. Meanwhile, Kasmer,

26:19 Speaker 2: eight hours later, returns the car to his friend, who's

26:25 Speaker 2: pissed off. You're like, what the fuck you said? Ten

26:27 Speaker 2: minutes it's eight hours later, and not only does he

26:30 Speaker 2: return the getaway car to his now angry friend. Inside

26:35 Speaker 2: that getaway car, he leaves a pair of his own

26:39 Speaker 2: overalls with the rest of the twine that was not

26:43 Speaker 2: used in tying up bank employees in the front pocket

26:46 Speaker 2: of the ash of the grown man's oshkosh but gosh wow.

26:51 Speaker 2: And one of the easily traceable silver coins from the

26:56 Speaker 2: bank robbery in between the seats that like fell out

27:00 Speaker 2: of his pocket in between the seats is also in

27:03 Speaker 2: the car.

27:03 Speaker 4: Genius yeah so, and the bank employees at the trial

27:09 Speaker 4: testify that they also recognized the two guys and knew

27:12 Speaker 4: who they were.

27:13 Speaker 2: But even if they, yeah, it's not clear that it's

27:18 Speaker 2: not clear that they even wore masks. I mean, maybe

27:20 Speaker 2: they just tied some twine around their eyes, like some

27:24 Speaker 2: kind of nineteen thirty two, Jeordi LaForge. I don't know,

27:27 Speaker 2: but so you know, the police traced the getaway car

27:33 Speaker 2: to the pissed off friend's house and they say, you know,

27:37 Speaker 2: this was the car used in a bank robbery. And

27:39 Speaker 2: he goes, what the fuck? My buddy told me he

27:41 Speaker 2: was going to take the car for ten minutes. And

27:44 Speaker 2: he comes back eight hours later and the police say,

27:46 Speaker 2: what's with these overalls and twine in your car? And

27:50 Speaker 2: the guy's like, wait what and he's like, oh, those

27:53 Speaker 2: must be my friends. And they say, well, who's your

27:57 Speaker 2: friend and the guy says, well, it's it's Kasmer, right.

28:02 Speaker 2: So the police go to Kasmar's house, they get award,

28:06 Speaker 2: they search the house, they find half the money, and

28:10 Speaker 2: that is why they they're coming to look for Kasmar.

28:14 Speaker 2: He must have gotten some kind of a heads up

28:16 Speaker 2: and that's why he ditches the restaurant.

28:18 Speaker 4: Genius. Absolutely geniuses, both of them.

28:22 Speaker 2: I really did feel like it was Lloyd and Harry

28:25 Speaker 2: from Dumb and Dumber, but just not as lucky.

28:29 Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty much. Wow.

28:31 Speaker 2: So they go to trial. They're going to trial. Kasmer

28:36 Speaker 2: cops a deal with the DA to plead guilty and

28:40 Speaker 2: to testify against Ferguson in exchange for a lighter sentence. Again, yes,

28:51 Speaker 2: but not that smart of a guy, because he's not

28:56 Speaker 2: getting no sentence at all, and however long his sentence is,

29:00 Speaker 2: both he and Ferguson are going to be going to

29:03 Speaker 2: San Quentin, except that he will have just squealed on

29:06 Speaker 2: the stand. He's like, just so I can get shanked

29:11 Speaker 2: with a toothbrush in prison, you know. And so the

29:15 Speaker 2: day comes for him to testify against Ferguson and he

29:19 Speaker 2: gets up on the stand and the DA questions him,

29:23 Speaker 2: and he refuses to say a word. He suddenly got smart.

29:27 Speaker 2: He refuses to say a word. He won't say anything

29:29 Speaker 2: at all. They ask him all these questions. He clams up,

29:31 Speaker 2: and you know, the DA says, well, isn't it true

29:36 Speaker 2: that the reason you're refusing to testify right now is

29:39 Speaker 2: that your life was threatened in jail last night? And

29:42 Speaker 2: again Kasmer won't say anything. So finally the DA's frustrated

29:47 Speaker 2: and he's like, well, you know you all right, you

29:49 Speaker 2: know you're going to jail anyway, he says, but let

29:51 Speaker 2: me ask you this. Will you answer this question? And

29:54 Speaker 2: he shows Kasmer the gun that Kasmer used to hold

29:58 Speaker 2: up the bank. And Kasmer says, and he says, is

30:03 Speaker 2: this is this the gun you used to hold up

30:06 Speaker 2: the bank? And Kasmer takes a look at it and

30:09 Speaker 2: he says, oh, yeah, yeah, I guess that's it. He

30:12 Speaker 2: goes it looked bigger the first time I saw it.

30:16 Speaker 2: But that's the one. I was like, if that's not

30:24 Speaker 2: a setup for a that's what she said, Joe, I've

30:28 Speaker 2: never heard one. Wow. Oh man, uh some of us,

30:35 Speaker 2: I know. I almost wish the prosecutor had said, yeah,

30:39 Speaker 2: for the record, you're on her. That's what she said. So, uh,

30:48 Speaker 2: now we're gonna move on to a quick little segment

30:51 Speaker 2: we like to call five star review of the Week,

30:54 Speaker 2: where we basically pick a review and read it just

30:57 Speaker 2: to sort of say thank you to our are our

31:00 Speaker 2: wonderful listeners who take the time to write the reviews.

31:04 Speaker 2: And this year's review is from this year's Yeah, yeah,

31:09 Speaker 2: we've only gotten one. We've only gotten yeah, we've only

31:13 Speaker 2: gotten one review this year. So I was going to

31:16 Speaker 2: say thank you, mister Ditkovich, but I should say thank

31:20 Speaker 2: you very very much mister Ditkovich for being our one

31:25 Speaker 2: review this year. So five star review, and it says,

31:31 Speaker 2: I like this show. What can I say? It's it's

31:34 Speaker 2: a good podcast. What more do you want? Thank you?

31:39 Speaker 3: That didn't sound like gun hilt his head as he

31:41 Speaker 3: wanted at all.

31:44 Speaker 2: Well, if he did, it would be right on brand.

31:47 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. No, you know what I kind of

31:49 Speaker 2: liked about that. You know, as a for a writer,

31:52 Speaker 2: I think sometimes earnest heavywey is the gold standard of

31:55 Speaker 2: being able to communicate the most with the greatest economy

31:59 Speaker 2: of words. And I think that mister did Kovich did

32:02 Speaker 2: that for us. He said, what can I say? It's

32:04 Speaker 2: a good podcast. What do you want from me? Oh? Boy?

32:10 Speaker 2: So Jerry, I wanted to say, you know, as I mentioned,

32:14 Speaker 2: it was so fun being on your show, and I'm

32:16 Speaker 2: so excited because I believe the episode I'm on came

32:20 Speaker 2: out this Sunday right correct awesome. So everybody go listen

32:24 Speaker 2: to Hillbilly Horror Stories. It's an awesome show without me.

32:29 Speaker 2: By the way, you don't need me to make this

32:31 Speaker 2: an awesome show. Hopefully I didn't detract from anything. But

32:34 Speaker 2: make sure you go find Hillbilly Horror Stories available anywhere

32:38 Speaker 2: you get your podcasts. It's a phenomenal show. And then

32:43 Speaker 2: you guys are I imagine all over social media? Jerry too.

32:45 Speaker 2: Where can people find you? On Twitter and Instagram? Facebook?

32:48 Speaker 3: Would just say the easiest way is just go to

32:51 Speaker 3: our website, Hillbilly Horror Stories dot Com. It's got access

32:55 Speaker 3: to all of our social media on air. Just click

32:57 Speaker 3: it and you go straight to it. Google you can

33:00 Speaker 3: find us. We're all over Google, so if you just

33:03 Speaker 3: do a search, you'll find us. But on our website,

33:06 Speaker 3: we've also got all of our live events that we're doing.

33:09 Speaker 3: We've got my book that's for sale, Hillbilie Horror Stories

33:12 Speaker 3: From Hell to High Water. I want to touch on

33:15 Speaker 3: that real quick, please please. The book is on It

33:18 Speaker 3: is written in three parts. The very first part it's

33:21 Speaker 3: almost like three many books into one. Wow. The very

33:24 Speaker 3: first part is my paranormal experience is growing up. The

33:27 Speaker 3: second part is about my divorce and attempted suicide and

33:31 Speaker 3: dealing with depression.

33:33 Speaker 4: Wow.

33:33 Speaker 3: And then the third part is how we tie the

33:36 Speaker 3: first two parts into Hillbily Horror Stories. And we include

33:40 Speaker 3: about twenty or twenty five messages at the end that

33:42 Speaker 3: people have sented to us telling us how it made

33:44 Speaker 3: a difference in their life, whether they decided not to

33:48 Speaker 3: commit suicide because of the show or something they heard,

33:51 Speaker 3: or whether they sought out some kind of medical help

33:54 Speaker 3: for the depression. But that's on there. And then we

33:58 Speaker 3: have a cruise that we're doing next September twenty twenty two.

34:03 Speaker 3: We've already had two hundred people.

34:04 Speaker 2: Sign up for it totally from.

34:06 Speaker 3: Miami to the Bahamas for four days, and we're going

34:10 Speaker 3: to be doing a live show one there with some

34:11 Speaker 3: of our podcast friends.

34:12 Speaker 2: And wow, yeah, that's on the website. Very nice. So

34:17 Speaker 2: in case you don't want to take my word for it,

34:19 Speaker 2: because I'm a source often of misinformation with an authoritative voice.

34:24 Speaker 2: In case you're wondering just how good Hillbilly Horror Stories is,

34:28 Speaker 2: they are selling out a Carnival cruise ship so just

34:32 Speaker 2: so that people can come hear them do their podcast live.

34:35 Speaker 2: And he's a hell of my gosh, this is a

34:38 Speaker 2: hell of a show. Their show, Please please go listen

34:42 Speaker 2: to it. I am honored and thrilled to be on

34:44 Speaker 2: it this week. And you know, Jerry, I'm honored and

34:48 Speaker 2: thrilled that you agreed to join us. Thank you so

34:51 Speaker 2: much for being here. It's been a thank you, It

34:54 Speaker 2: was an honor. I'm eager to share with you the

35:08 Speaker 2: cursed history of Henry NEF. Anderson, Senior and the ghost

35:12 Speaker 2: town of Andersonia that still bears his name. But before

35:16 Speaker 2: I do, I need to introduce you to my guests today.

35:20 Speaker 2: It is my honor and my privilege to inform you

35:23 Speaker 2: that sharing the microphone with me today are none other

35:27 Speaker 2: than Kentucky Bluegrass blue Bloods of Horror and Haunting, the

35:31 Speaker 2: Duchess and Duke of Spirits and Spooks, the King and

35:34 Speaker 2: Queen of all creepy Things, the President and First Lady

35:38 Speaker 2: of the United Paranormal States of America. It's Jerry and

35:42 Speaker 2: Tracy Pauley from Hillbilly Horror Stories. Hey, how are you

35:45 Speaker 2: two doing?

35:46 Speaker 6: Go ahead, babe, you could have just I'm sorry what

35:49 Speaker 6: we're doing right, I'm sorry in the same room together.

35:54 Speaker 2: I fol for doing that to you, sir.

35:56 Speaker 6: Now that's okay, Honney, thank you for having us. We

35:58 Speaker 6: were just an honor to be on your show.

36:01 Speaker 2: Well, it's absolutely an honor to have you.

36:03 Speaker 3: And that's got to be one of the most advanced introductions.

36:09 Speaker 2: Thank you. Gosh. If you hear a little frog in

36:12 Speaker 2: my throat at any point during the show, I apologize

36:15 Speaker 2: I am recovering from a cold. Luckily not COVID as

36:19 Speaker 2: far as I know, I tested negative. But it's been

36:21 Speaker 2: a little bit of a journey. Of course. You guys

36:24 Speaker 2: are the hosts of the wildly popular Hillbilly Horror Stories.

36:28 Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about Hillbilly Horror Stories?

36:31 Speaker 2: What type of stories you tell, what you're up to,

36:34 Speaker 2: How the show got started, basically, anything you want to

36:37 Speaker 2: tell us.

36:37 Speaker 3: Well, the show has evolved a lot. We're getting ready

36:40 Speaker 3: to celebrate our six year anniversary in August. And the

36:44 Speaker 3: show initially started out with me and a friend of mine,

36:47 Speaker 3: gentleman by name of Ricky, and it was about twenty

36:50 Speaker 3: minute episodes on. It was supposed to just be Southern

36:53 Speaker 3: ghost stories, thus the term Hillbilly Horror Stories, and it

36:58 Speaker 3: was a little more adult, should say. I had Diane

37:01 Speaker 3: from History Goes Bump. She kind of coined it as

37:04 Speaker 3: it sounded like two guys in a bar talking about

37:07 Speaker 3: ghost and that was pretty accurate, I'd say, wouldn't real

37:10 Speaker 3: child friendly, we'll say, And eventually, after eight or ten episodes,

37:17 Speaker 3: we decided that that really wasn't working as much as

37:20 Speaker 3: we wanted, and Tracy became the co host. We became

37:22 Speaker 3: a little more friendly for families and for work, and

37:26 Speaker 3: that's kind of how it started. And we eventually started

37:30 Speaker 3: covering stories from all over the world, so it's not

37:32 Speaker 3: just Southern stories anymore. No need to change the name,

37:35 Speaker 3: so we kept it. People liked it, and I'd say

37:38 Speaker 3: today it's really evolved because we went from doing one

37:42 Speaker 3: story a week on Sundays to interviewing some of the

37:46 Speaker 3: hottest names in the paranormal field, to doing basically six

37:51 Speaker 3: episodes a week. Now. We do our classic show on Sunday,

37:55 Speaker 3: but then we do a couple of other more scripted shows.

37:58 Speaker 3: Because our show is conversational, Tracy never knows the story,

38:02 Speaker 3: so when we do the story, she's hearing things for

38:05 Speaker 3: the first time and she has a natural reaction like

38:07 Speaker 3: a lot of our listeners would have. She asks a

38:09 Speaker 3: lot of the questions that they would ask. And that's

38:12 Speaker 3: kind of been our success to the to the show,

38:16 Speaker 3: I think is the fact of our chemistry together. Being

38:19 Speaker 3: married obviously helps. And I tried to get Ricky to

38:23 Speaker 3: marry me. He didn't want to, so his loss, and

38:26 Speaker 3: I think that's that's when the show went to the crapper.

38:28 Speaker 3: But no I think that's the key, but I know

38:31 Speaker 3: people like other things. So, like you said, we do

38:33 Speaker 3: six episodes a week. We do one that's basically listeners stories.

38:37 Speaker 3: We call it Eerie Encounters and I just read it

38:40 Speaker 3: with a little bit of music behind it. We have

38:42 Speaker 3: one called macab Misfortunes that we do on Saturday, which

38:46 Speaker 3: is just a shorter version of what we do on

38:49 Speaker 3: Sunday Show. So it's almost if you like Sunday Show

38:51 Speaker 3: of the format, it's the same thing, except it's usually

38:54 Speaker 3: a story that's got some tragedy involved with it, and

38:57 Speaker 3: it's not always paranormal. We've done a plane crash where

39:00 Speaker 3: the plane was missing for fifty years and turned up

39:02 Speaker 3: and things like that, so it gives us a little

39:04 Speaker 3: more flexibility on that one. But yeah, if you get

39:08 Speaker 3: something for everybody, if you tune in Tuesday through Sunday.

39:11 Speaker 2: That's all fantastic stuff. And let me just say that,

39:14 Speaker 2: thank goodness Tracy came on board, because I'm a big

39:19 Speaker 2: fan of the show obviously, and I can't imagine the

39:22 Speaker 2: show without you. Tracy. You so often just sort of

39:28 Speaker 2: have the perfect aside or insight. Nah, shall we jump

39:34 Speaker 2: into today's story?

39:36 Speaker 3: Say sure?

39:38 Speaker 2: All right. As I mentioned at the top, this is

39:40 Speaker 2: the story of the haunted and cursed history of the

39:45 Speaker 2: lumber ghost town Andersonia. Now. Andersonia is located just off

39:49 Speaker 2: the one on one North, about five miles from Percy, California,

39:53 Speaker 2: near the south fork of the Eel River. In order

39:56 Speaker 2: to tell you the whole story of Andersonia, I have

40:00 Speaker 2: to begin with the story of the man it's named after,

40:03 Speaker 2: the founder of Andersonia, Henry NEF. Anderson Senior, which brings

40:09 Speaker 2: me to the classic inquiry for all tales of woe,

40:12 Speaker 2: the need to understand the victim. And so I ask

40:18 Speaker 2: who was Henry NEF. Anderson Senior. Henry Anderson, known affectionately

40:24 Speaker 2: as Pap Anderson, was born in eighteen thirty nine. He

40:28 Speaker 2: was a Ford thinking fellow with an eye for opportunity,

40:31 Speaker 2: and by eighteen seventy eight he was a Timberman in

40:34 Speaker 2: the great State of Michigan, home to last week's guest,

40:38 Speaker 2: Nick View from the Traditional Outdoors Podcast. And I know

40:41 Speaker 2: many other fine Michiganders. You know, guys, I'm always looking

40:47 Speaker 2: for an excuse to say the word Michigander because I

40:50 Speaker 2: enjoy it so much, you know, And I have to

40:53 Speaker 2: ask you to. I take it that someone from Kentucky

40:57 Speaker 2: is obviously called a Kentuckian. But are there any other

41:00 Speaker 2: names maybe that Kentuckians use amongst themselves that not everybody

41:04 Speaker 2: would know about. Got any other nicknames for each other

41:07 Speaker 2: depending on where you're from, or any behind the curtain

41:10 Speaker 2: Kentucky monikers.

41:12 Speaker 3: No, but there's there's some where if you were, like

41:14 Speaker 3: in the Louisville area and you're close to there are

41:17 Speaker 3: southern Indiana's right across the bridge there, so people go

41:20 Speaker 3: back and forth. That's kind of considered Kentucky Anian. Okay,

41:23 Speaker 3: there you go, so you know that, But that's that's

41:27 Speaker 3: not used very often, to be honest with you.

41:30 Speaker 2: Is there other than that? Much like with Wisconsin and Illinois?

41:33 Speaker 2: Is there no love lost between Kentucky and Indiana or Indiana?

41:38 Speaker 2: Or do you guys get along pretty well?

41:39 Speaker 3: I don't think we get along with anybody. Kentucky and Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Kentucky,

41:43 Speaker 3: West Virginia. Yeah, we have a little. We have the

41:47 Speaker 3: inner city rivals, like the fact that Kentucky, you got

41:50 Speaker 3: Louisville and Lexington that just can't stand each other, just

41:54 Speaker 3: mainly for sports. Reasons, but it bleeds.

41:56 Speaker 2: Over it area. Yeah. I imagine that's because the Wildcats

41:59 Speaker 2: out of Lexington and the Cardinals out of Louisville are

42:02 Speaker 2: such good basketball teams, right.

42:04 Speaker 3: Usually, but it carries over into lacrosse anything. I guess

42:08 Speaker 3: you could you could foot factory in.

42:09 Speaker 2: Boy, you guys must have loved all the Rick Patino

42:12 Speaker 2: stuff then I imagine that was super entertaining. My goodness.

42:15 Speaker 6: Yeah. Never never a dull moment, that's for sure.

42:18 Speaker 2: Wow, what I never knew that that's what an Italian

42:21 Speaker 2: restaurant was for my goodness.

42:25 Speaker 3: Well, that's it, you know, that's a That's the difference

42:27 Speaker 3: between Rick Bottino and John Calipari is John Caliperi is

42:31 Speaker 3: really good with public relations and Rick Patino is really

42:34 Speaker 3: good with relationships.

42:37 Speaker 2: That's good. That's good. Yeah, man, I thought it was

42:41 Speaker 2: scandalous when Michael shot the police commissioner in the in

42:45 Speaker 2: the Italian restaurant in The Godfather, But right, Rick Patino

42:49 Speaker 2: took it to a whole other level.

42:51 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, he's a lover there you go.

42:54 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I Well, on that note, let's let's jump

42:58 Speaker 2: back into the tale of Pape Anderson here. So, uh,

43:02 Speaker 2: as the Michigan timber industry grew, Pap moved to the

43:07 Speaker 2: town of Greenville, Michigan, and there he spent twenty years. Now,

43:12 Speaker 2: as I mentioned, he was a forward thinking man with

43:14 Speaker 2: an eye for opportunity, and around the turn of the

43:17 Speaker 2: twentieth century, there was no greater lumber el Dorado than

43:20 Speaker 2: the great Pacific Northwest, home to the Emerald Triangle and

43:24 Speaker 2: the stories you hear on this season of kind of Murdery. Well,

43:28 Speaker 2: if someone like me can see opportunity in the great, looming,

43:31 Speaker 2: dark forests of the Pacific Northwest, you can bet that

43:35 Speaker 2: sharp eyed businessman and burgeoning lagger baron Pap Anderson wasn't

43:39 Speaker 2: about to miss out. PAP's carp a DM moment, his

43:43 Speaker 2: opportunity to venture into the shadows of the ancients and

43:47 Speaker 2: seize upon the shady green gold awaiting him in the

43:50 Speaker 2: untouched old growth redwood forests of the Pacific Northwest. His

43:55 Speaker 2: door to destiny was unlocked by tragic misfortune. Not mind you,

44:01 Speaker 2: PAP's misfortune, but rather that of another Timberman named JM.

44:07 Speaker 2: Weatherwax Side note great name weatherwax Uh. I wouldn't mind

44:13 Speaker 2: borrowing that surname for a day or two. All right,

44:18 Speaker 2: if Pap had seen foreshadowing rather than opportunity, perhaps he

44:22 Speaker 2: would never have ventured west of the Michigan Woods. But

44:26 Speaker 2: he made his fortune by recognizing rich business opportunities, not

44:30 Speaker 2: by scrying grim omens. And so when JM. Weatherwax, pioneer

44:36 Speaker 2: of Gray's Harbor and sawmill operator, died in eighteen ninety eight,

44:41 Speaker 2: Pap Anderson bought his mill in Aberdeen, Washington, where he

44:45 Speaker 2: founded Anderson and Middleton Lumber alongside his three sons, Sam

44:50 Speaker 2: hal and Ed and his son in law Bert Middleton. Now,

44:55 Speaker 2: Pap Anderson's opportunity to stake claim to the rich Washington

44:59 Speaker 2: Woods arose out of the death of someone else. But

45:03 Speaker 2: opportunity born from calamity doesn't always appear at another's expense,

45:09 Speaker 2: you know, Jerry Tracy, I've found in my life that

45:11 Speaker 2: sometimes things happen that seem like an absolute disaster when

45:15 Speaker 2: you're in the middle of it, but then later on

45:18 Speaker 2: down the road you realize that wonderful things that have

45:21 Speaker 2: happened wouldn't have been possible without going through that seeming

45:25 Speaker 2: disaster first. I guess that's why there's the saying it's

45:29 Speaker 2: always darkest before the Dawn. But I wanted to ask you, guys,

45:34 Speaker 2: if there are any examples in your own lives of

45:37 Speaker 2: things you did or things that happened to you that

45:40 Speaker 2: felt like an utter catastrophe when they were happening, but

45:44 Speaker 2: that you now can see have led to something overwhelmingly positive.

45:50 Speaker 3: Well, I would obviously say my divorce, my divorce from

45:55 Speaker 3: my first wife, because that definitely seemed like a calamity

45:58 Speaker 3: at the time, and it was the darkest part of

46:02 Speaker 3: my life. And now my life is pretty great, and

46:06 Speaker 3: I have a wonderful wife, and you know, I could

46:11 Speaker 3: never have foreseen my life being where it is now.

46:14 Speaker 3: I'm as happy at that I've ever been in my life,

46:16 Speaker 3: and I couldn't have seen that twenty years ago.

46:19 Speaker 2: And I know you guys do a lot of you

46:21 Speaker 2: do a lot of work around causes for mental health

46:25 Speaker 2: and suicide prevention and also for veterans causes. And do

46:29 Speaker 2: you feel like your desire to be in those outreach

46:33 Speaker 2: and charitable areas was born out of anything that happened

46:37 Speaker 2: to you in your life?

46:40 Speaker 3: Oh, I think, without a doubt. I think I think

46:43 Speaker 3: once you've been to that point, you have a whole

46:46 Speaker 3: different outlook on what It's like, I know, when I

46:50 Speaker 3: was before any of this happened, depression was something I

46:53 Speaker 3: had never dealt with, never understood depression. You know. I

46:58 Speaker 3: was one of those people that would say, mean, if

46:59 Speaker 3: you're press just get up and do something, you know,

47:01 Speaker 3: work it off. You know, it's like getting you know,

47:03 Speaker 3: hit with a baseball. Just walk it off. That's what

47:06 Speaker 3: I felt like, you know, what are you sad about?

47:07 Speaker 3: I mean, you got all these good things in your life,

47:10 Speaker 3: what do you what's there to be sad about? And

47:12 Speaker 3: you don't realize that it's a it's truly a mental

47:15 Speaker 3: condition that you just can't get over that easily. And

47:19 Speaker 3: once I went through it and realized that it didn't

47:22 Speaker 3: matter what happened, you know, I couldn't change that, at

47:26 Speaker 3: least not easily. So yeah, my outlook completely changed on that.

47:30 Speaker 3: And people who would attempt suicide, I was one of

47:33 Speaker 3: those that believed that anybody who did it was completely selfish.

47:36 Speaker 3: Couldn't understand why anybody would even consider it until I

47:39 Speaker 3: got to that point. And then you realize that sometimes

47:43 Speaker 3: you just hurt so bad you wanted to go away

47:45 Speaker 3: at any cost, and you know you're willing to do

47:50 Speaker 3: things because you're not in the right state of mind.

47:53 Speaker 3: And that's the whole thing. Whether it be depression, whether

47:55 Speaker 3: it be suicide attempts, or people who actually complete the

47:59 Speaker 3: job of suicide, it's all about the frame of mind

48:02 Speaker 3: that you're in right there, and you will never understand

48:05 Speaker 3: that until you've been there.

48:06 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, when you're in that frame of mind, you

48:10 Speaker 2: can sort of intellectually be aware of all the blessings

48:13 Speaker 2: in your life, but you just can't feel it like that.

48:18 Speaker 2: You just can't feel that anything is good or positive,

48:22 Speaker 2: and it's hard to move, it's hard to breathe, it's

48:24 Speaker 2: hard to do anything. So yeah, I think you're exactly

48:27 Speaker 2: right about that, and I think I'm sorry that you

48:32 Speaker 2: went through such a dark time in your life, but

48:34 Speaker 2: I think that it's been a great blessing to the

48:37 Speaker 2: community that you've created through Hillbilly Horror Stories, the larger

48:41 Speaker 2: podcasting community, and for anyone that has the good luck

48:45 Speaker 2: to hear your voice and hear you talk about these things,

48:48 Speaker 2: who've maybe who's maybe been in those dark spaces and themselves.

48:53 Speaker 2: I mean, thank God that you went through what you

48:55 Speaker 2: went through so that you can help the rest of

48:57 Speaker 2: us find a way through it, so that curse was

49:00 Speaker 2: a blessing, not just for yourself but for everybody. I think,

49:03 Speaker 2: And as as we were just talking about this idea

49:05 Speaker 2: that sometimes terrible things happen, but down the road you

49:09 Speaker 2: see that the wonderful things could only have grown out

49:14 Speaker 2: of the soil of these these tragedies or these hard times.

49:20 Speaker 2: And I guess I guess that's why they call it faith, right,

49:22 Speaker 2: because human beings often don't have the perspective or the

49:26 Speaker 2: patients to anticipate the domino effects of events that occur

49:30 Speaker 2: around us. I mean, that's that's the conclusion I've come to.

49:33 Speaker 3: Anyway, Yeah, I agree.

49:35 Speaker 2: And speaking of domino effects, let's get back to Pat Anderson.

49:40 Speaker 2: So he'd put down those firm roots in Aberdeen, Washington,

49:43 Speaker 2: near Gray's Harbor, but then he stumbled upon what he

49:47 Speaker 2: saw as the opportunity of a lifetime. He made a

49:51 Speaker 2: trip to the Redwoods of northern California, where he discovered

49:55 Speaker 2: what he saw as the future of the logging business.

49:58 Speaker 2: There was an abundance of ancient timber that could be

50:01 Speaker 2: purchased at low prices. However, part of the reason for

50:05 Speaker 2: the affordable price point was a significant logistical challenge. Sure,

50:10 Speaker 2: you could buy the trees and at a great price

50:12 Speaker 2: by board foot, but challenges remained. How could you fell them,

50:17 Speaker 2: mill the timber into lumber and then get it through

50:20 Speaker 2: the endless emerald moat of ancient redwood forest. Well Anderson

50:24 Speaker 2: concluded that a mill could be located seventeen miles from

50:28 Speaker 2: the coast, and lumber could be moved by railway to

50:31 Speaker 2: the docks and shift both north and south. He knew

50:34 Speaker 2: he'd have to plan for the daily life of his

50:37 Speaker 2: loggers and mill workers, and so he selected an area

50:40 Speaker 2: where the soil was arable, and he could locate his

50:44 Speaker 2: workmen's homes near the railroad, giving them access to the

50:47 Speaker 2: mill and the company train, as well as the ability

50:51 Speaker 2: to have gardens and orchards. Pap saw his timber utopia

50:56 Speaker 2: what would become the town of Andersonia as buld of

51:00 Speaker 2: an economic opportunity and the social experiment. Of course, these

51:06 Speaker 2: were extremely rose colored glasses through which to view the

51:10 Speaker 2: company towns of the turn of the twentieth century. Emerald

51:14 Speaker 2: Triangle Timber Industry. Now, guys, you're both native Kentuckians or Jerry.

51:20 Speaker 2: I know you are, Tracy. Are you from Kentucky all

51:23 Speaker 2: your life too. Well, there you go. So, Jerry and Tracy,

51:25 Speaker 2: you're both native Kentuckians, so I'm sure you're more than

51:28 Speaker 2: just a little familiar with the notorious company towns of

51:31 Speaker 2: the coal industry, made pop culture famous to a lot

51:35 Speaker 2: of us by the Merle Travis song sixteen Tons, which

51:39 Speaker 2: I used to sing with my dad in the truck

51:42 Speaker 2: on the way to the school bus every morning. It

51:44 Speaker 2: was our morning school commute ritual. And the lumber company

51:49 Speaker 2: towns of the Pacific Northwest at the turn of the

51:51 Speaker 2: twentieth century were what I've gathered and what I've read

51:55 Speaker 2: not too dissimilar. Do you guys have any friends or

51:58 Speaker 2: family who are a workhole and do you know anyone

52:01 Speaker 2: who's experienced what it's like to it to live in

52:04 Speaker 2: a company town?

52:05 Speaker 3: I actually do not.

52:06 Speaker 6: I mean, I'm pretty sure that I had relatives they

52:09 Speaker 6: used to live up in All well. My mom's from

52:10 Speaker 6: Olive Hill, and I recall that she had had spoken

52:14 Speaker 6: about that she had some family set did work in

52:17 Speaker 6: the coal mines, but I don't really remember any specifics

52:20 Speaker 6: about it. But God bless them, they're hard workers. I'll

52:23 Speaker 6: tell you. I just I don't know how they do

52:26 Speaker 6: it like they do it.

52:27 Speaker 3: And fun fun fact, Olive Hill, where her mother lived,

52:30 Speaker 3: is where Tom T. Hall lived at the same.

52:32 Speaker 6: Oh wow, Yeah, they were actually neighbors, like right next

52:36 Speaker 6: door each other. My mom always told me that story,

52:38 Speaker 6: how that they used to maybe sit in each other

52:41 Speaker 6: and stuff like that. So I thought that was pretty cool.

52:43 Speaker 2: So that is yeah, that is I have a story

52:46 Speaker 2: kind of like that. My grandfather was grew up in Stockton, California,

52:52 Speaker 2: which is where John Fogerty from Creeden's Clear Waters from

52:57 Speaker 2: and then when he was in his middle years, my

53:00 Speaker 2: grandfather was a drummer in a Dixieland jazz band and

53:03 Speaker 2: they used to play Dixieland at this one bar in

53:07 Speaker 2: Stockton where John's mother, who was a single woman, would

53:12 Speaker 2: often go to go out. And so my grandfather got

53:17 Speaker 2: to know her because she was a regular at the

53:19 Speaker 2: bar when his band would play. And he says he

53:22 Speaker 2: remembers very clearly a night when she came up to

53:26 Speaker 2: him and said, my son just wrote this new song.

53:30 Speaker 2: I really like it. And he said, oh, yeah, what's

53:32 Speaker 2: it called? And she said, who will Stop the Rain?

53:37 Speaker 1: No Way?

53:39 Speaker 2: Like what a moment it was. In history, like it

53:43 Speaker 2: was the night of the day that John Fogerty back

53:46 Speaker 2: in Mom's garage wrote Who'll Stop the Raid?

53:49 Speaker 6: You know, yeah, that's a great story, great song.

53:53 Speaker 2: Oh man, I love Credence.

53:54 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, we do too.

53:56 Speaker 3: Oh same here. We got to see John last year.

54:00 Speaker 2: Fantastic. He's wonderful.

54:02 Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, she's like, what is in his seventies

54:05 Speaker 6: and you would think he's in his thirties. He lives

54:08 Speaker 6: all over that stage. I mean he was wonderful.

54:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks great, And you're right, he moves like

54:14 Speaker 2: a much younger man. I mean I'm much younger than him.

54:17 Speaker 2: I think he moves better than it moves better not yes,

54:20 Speaker 2: for dang sure. My one other this moment in personalized,

54:25 Speaker 2: This moment in music history happened to me. I think

54:29 Speaker 2: it was probably two thousand and seven New Year's Eve

54:32 Speaker 2: and I went to this little Irish bar in Los

54:34 Speaker 2: Angeles called Molly Malone's to see my friend's bluegrass rock

54:40 Speaker 2: band called The Lincoln Bedroom. Nice and opening for the

54:44 Speaker 2: Lincoln Bedroom was this group that I didn't know anything about,

54:50 Speaker 2: and they were all dressed in matching suits like the Temptations.

54:56 Speaker 2: There were horn players, that everybody danced like Michael Jackson.

54:59 Speaker 2: It was the most mind blowingly awesome show I'd ever seen.

55:04 Speaker 2: And I watched it in probably a seven hundred square

55:08 Speaker 2: foot room about twenty five feet from the stage. And

55:14 Speaker 2: probably two weeks after that, when he all of a

55:18 Speaker 2: sudden became massively famous, I realized that I'd just seen

55:22 Speaker 2: Bruno Mars.

55:23 Speaker 6: Oh oh nice, Oh my gosh, that is so awesome.

55:30 Speaker 2: Completely completely blew my mind. And he was opening for

55:34 Speaker 2: my buddies like folk Rock bed.

55:37 Speaker 6: You know that's awesome.

55:41 Speaker 2: Okay, I digress. Let's get back to Let's get back

55:44 Speaker 2: to pap Anderson. He located the mill, this utopian sawmill

55:52 Speaker 2: dream of his, in an area where Percy Creek empties

55:57 Speaker 2: into the Eel River, about seventeen and a half mile

56:00 Speaker 2: from the coast, and he quickly went to work constructing

56:03 Speaker 2: a dam thirty two feet high and eighty feet across

56:06 Speaker 2: to form a mill pond capable of holding twenty million

56:10 Speaker 2: board feet of logs. I mean, this was not a

56:14 Speaker 2: guy for half measures. If he was going to build

56:17 Speaker 2: a logging town and build a sawmill to cut down

56:20 Speaker 2: these giant trees, he was going to do it all

56:23 Speaker 2: the way. I don't know if you have you guys,

56:26 Speaker 2: ever visited northern California, are you familiar with redwood trees

56:29 Speaker 2: at all? Now?

56:30 Speaker 3: The furthest furthest I think either one of us has

56:33 Speaker 3: been in is Las Vegas.

56:34 Speaker 2: Well, Vegas is fun. Well, I grew up. I grew

56:37 Speaker 2: up amongst the redwoods, and they really are remarkable. They

56:42 Speaker 2: can be the oldest ones can be as much as

56:47 Speaker 2: forty feet in diameter, over three hundred feet tall, and

56:51 Speaker 2: they can be five thousand years old. So if you

56:56 Speaker 2: cut down a redwood tree that old. And you know

56:59 Speaker 2: how trees have of rings right that show how much

57:02 Speaker 2: they've grown in any particular year. They grow a lot

57:06 Speaker 2: more in mild years, less if there's a forest fire

57:09 Speaker 2: or a drought or something. But you can actually mark

57:12 Speaker 2: like the entirety of recorded human history.

57:17 Speaker 6: That's amazing.

57:18 Speaker 2: It really blows my mind. It's like, here's Sophocles, here's

57:23 Speaker 2: the birth of Christ, here's the Crusades, and you can

57:26 Speaker 2: go all the way from the dawn of things to now. Incredible,

57:32 Speaker 2: they're living, living time capsules. So he builds this incredible setup.

57:37 Speaker 2: He laid out railroad connecting the mill to the coastal

57:40 Speaker 2: port at Bear Harbor, and he had his workmen build

57:44 Speaker 2: fourteen massive trestles to span the narrow valleys and gulches

57:49 Speaker 2: along the route from Andersonia to Bear Harbor. Now, railroad

57:54 Speaker 2: activity at Bear Harbor was nothing new, and here again,

57:57 Speaker 2: although he may not have realized it, as before in

58:01 Speaker 2: Gray's Harbor, Washington, pap Anderson benefited from the dominoes that

58:06 Speaker 2: fell as the result of another man's unfortunate demise. In

58:10 Speaker 2: eighteen eighty two, C. C. Milton had begun building wharves

58:15 Speaker 2: at Bear Harbor for the shipping of tan bark and

58:17 Speaker 2: railroad ties, but in eighteen eighty four he unexpectedly drowned

58:22 Speaker 2: at Rockport, California, and construction was halted. I suppose it

58:27 Speaker 2: may have been redundant to say unexpectedly drowned, as though,

58:31 Speaker 2: because no one ever drowned. Yeah, no one expects to

58:35 Speaker 2: drown it, right, I mean, and although no one ever

58:39 Speaker 2: hopes for drownings, if one does occur, you have to

58:43 Speaker 2: hope that it's unexpected, right, because otherwise it's murder.

58:46 Speaker 6: It's correct, or just dumb luck, right right.

58:50 Speaker 2: By July of eighteen eighty five, doctor W. A. McCormick

58:54 Speaker 2: of Mendocino resumes work on the wharves and the timber shoot,

58:58 Speaker 2: and to fast forward a little, in eighteen ninety two,

59:00 Speaker 2: other business interests acquire the wharves and twelve thousand acres

59:03 Speaker 2: of timber and they order their very first steam engine,

59:07 Speaker 2: Engine Number one, from San Francisco, and then a year

59:11 Speaker 2: later over two miles of track was in use, and

59:14 Speaker 2: by eighteen eighty nine they get their second engine, creatively

59:17 Speaker 2: named Engine number two, and a plan was set to

59:20 Speaker 2: run railroad all the way from Bear Harbor to the

59:22 Speaker 2: town of Garberville. Now all of this occurred while Pap

59:28 Speaker 2: was busy lumbering in Michigan and Washington, but it seems

59:31 Speaker 2: clear that the death of C. C. Milton set off

59:34 Speaker 2: a flurry of economic opportunity that would make pap stream

59:38 Speaker 2: of Andersonia possible. In case anyone is keeping track, Pap

59:43 Speaker 2: Anderson's destiny has been defined by two deaths so far.

59:49 Speaker 2: So far, Dun, Dun, Dun. By nineteen oh two, Anderson

59:56 Speaker 2: and Middleton had arrived on the scene in Mendocino County,

59:59 Speaker 2: just south of the Humbled border, and they incorporated the

1:00:03 Speaker 2: Southern Humble lumber company with capital stock of five hundred

1:00:07 Speaker 2: thousand dollars. By this time, Anderson himself was a millionaire man.

1:00:13 Speaker 2: How'd you like to have a million dollars in nineteen

1:00:15 Speaker 2: oh five?

1:00:17 Speaker 6: Got Away, It's hard to believe there would be such

1:00:21 Speaker 6: a thing in that year.

1:00:22 Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know, you'd be like royalty absolutely.

1:00:26 Speaker 2: I mean my grandfather, I remember him telling me his

1:00:28 Speaker 2: first job in Stockton that we were just talking about.

1:00:31 Speaker 2: He was eighteen, so it would have been nineteen thirty eight,

1:00:35 Speaker 2: and he would work all day in the blazing height

1:00:38 Speaker 2: hot sun digging potatoes for fifty cents a day. And

1:00:42 Speaker 2: that's that's nineteen thirty eight. So that'll give you some

1:00:46 Speaker 2: idea what a million bucks in nineteen oh five must

1:00:50 Speaker 2: have been able to get you. So by February of

1:00:55 Speaker 2: nineteen oh five, the sawmill was built, filled with the

1:00:59 Speaker 2: appssel cutting edge pun intended of logging machinery, shipped and

1:01:06 Speaker 2: then transported via mule cart I guess from the East

1:01:10 Speaker 2: coast by Pap Anderson. A great expense and logistical challenge

1:01:14 Speaker 2: Andersonia his timber utopia had been laid out over forty

1:01:19 Speaker 2: acres in all seventeen and a half miles by covered

1:01:22 Speaker 2: wagon road from the town of Garberville because there were

1:01:26 Speaker 2: no cars yet. It included a general store, a post office,

1:01:30 Speaker 2: a saloon, a cookhouse of bunkhouse or railway depot, and

1:01:34 Speaker 2: everything needed for a full grown logging town. As construction

1:01:37 Speaker 2: was completed, Pap recruited his crew from Grays Harbor and

1:01:41 Speaker 2: other northern logging companies, even as far away as the

1:01:44 Speaker 2: home state of his first logging operation, Michigan. Michigander, there's

1:01:48 Speaker 2: my favorite word again. William Lilly made a trip to

1:01:51 Speaker 2: northern California to become the foreman of Southern Humble Lumber

1:01:55 Speaker 2: Company and stood in Andersonia Mouth Agape just trying to

1:02:00 Speaker 2: make sense of the largest trees he had ever seen,

1:02:04 Speaker 2: truly untouched virgin old growth forests. I've seen some old photos.

1:02:10 Speaker 2: By the time, there were actual logging trucks, like we're

1:02:13 Speaker 2: maybe all familiar with, essentially flatbed mac trucks. You could

1:02:17 Speaker 2: only fit one tree on an entire truck.

1:02:21 Speaker 6: Wow, now, those aren't the trees that you could. They've

1:02:25 Speaker 6: got them carved out where you can drive a truck

1:02:28 Speaker 6: through or a car through or something like that.

1:02:30 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Those to that In fact, that drive

1:02:32 Speaker 2: through tree, the famous one, is not too far from

1:02:36 Speaker 2: this town of Andersonia that I'm telling you guys all about. Say, cool,

1:02:39 Speaker 2: you're you're exactly on point there, Tracy Good.

1:02:42 Speaker 6: It would seemed like it would take forever to you know,

1:02:44 Speaker 6: get all those trees over there, if they could only

1:02:46 Speaker 6: do one at a time.

1:02:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think it did take a long time,

1:02:49 Speaker 2: but there was so much money in it that, uh,

1:02:52 Speaker 2: you know, many hands make short work, I guess. And also,

1:02:57 Speaker 2: as I sort of alluded to when I mentioned that

1:02:59 Speaker 2: he damned the rear to create a mill pond, very

1:03:02 Speaker 2: often they would use a lot of water for the transport.

1:03:05 Speaker 2: You'd essentially dump all the logs into the pond and

1:03:08 Speaker 2: then run them down the river for as long as

1:03:10 Speaker 2: you can to get where you're going. Because, yeah, as

1:03:15 Speaker 2: you said, besides train trees this big, I mean, they

1:03:19 Speaker 2: were nearly impossible to transport. And that was why when

1:03:23 Speaker 2: he first arrived in the Emerald Triangle you could get

1:03:28 Speaker 2: a pretty good deal on very valuable timber because everybody

1:03:31 Speaker 2: was like, well, yeah, it's here, but how the heck

1:03:34 Speaker 2: am I supposed to get it out of here and

1:03:35 Speaker 2: sell it? So one day in the fall of nineteen

1:03:40 Speaker 2: oh five, everything was ready. Pap sons and son in

1:03:44 Speaker 2: law Bird had arrived, and toward the end of October

1:03:47 Speaker 2: of that year, Pap announced that the mill and Andersonia

1:03:51 Speaker 2: would cut its first log. It had been a race

1:03:54 Speaker 2: against time to make sure everything was ready. Much of

1:03:57 Speaker 2: the scaffolding and staging was still up, but the saws

1:04:01 Speaker 2: had been lined up, the carriage tested, and the live

1:04:04 Speaker 2: rolls were working. The live rolls are what they when

1:04:07 Speaker 2: they cut a big round off the log, it would

1:04:09 Speaker 2: drop onto essentially like a conveyor belt, sort of like

1:04:12 Speaker 2: when you're going through security at the airport, and that

1:04:15 Speaker 2: would roll the log into the mill to be cut

1:04:18 Speaker 2: by the giant saw blades. So everything was up and running.

1:04:21 Speaker 2: A huge crowd had gathered when Pap Andersen roared started

1:04:26 Speaker 2: up and the first redwood log came up, the slips soaking,

1:04:31 Speaker 2: wet and heavy with perfect wood. Andersen took a position

1:04:35 Speaker 2: behind the saws to watch, his eyes sparkling with anticipation

1:04:39 Speaker 2: as the first blades bit into that gargantuine tree. Sawdust

1:04:44 Speaker 2: flew as the steel cut deep, slicing a thick round

1:04:48 Speaker 2: of wood from the tree. The round fell the off

1:04:51 Speaker 2: bearer stuck his piccaroon in the round, landed up on

1:04:54 Speaker 2: the rolls, and the round began to slide smoothly toward

1:04:57 Speaker 2: the mill for sawing into lumber. Everything was going perfectly.

1:05:02 Speaker 2: Pap was thrilled to witness the first moments of the

1:05:05 Speaker 2: birth of his Emerald Triangle logging empire. And then, with

1:05:10 Speaker 2: all the horrible inevitability of a scene from the film

1:05:13 Speaker 2: series Final Destination, a cable used to demolish the staging

1:05:19 Speaker 2: from the construction work caught on a brace in the

1:05:22 Speaker 2: structure of the mill. It tore the brace loose, and

1:05:26 Speaker 2: that impossibly heavy brace tumbled high overhead like the sword

1:05:29 Speaker 2: of Damocles, hanging above the skull of visionary Pap Anderson,

1:05:34 Speaker 2: the very man whose vision and perseverance, whose dreams made reality,

1:05:39 Speaker 2: had created this exact moment. The brace struck Pap Anderson

1:05:45 Speaker 2: where he stood. He hung on for a hopeless week

1:05:51 Speaker 2: and died.

1:05:53 Speaker 6: H Yeah, so Pap had a horrible thing happened to him,

1:05:58 Speaker 6: But look what are you creating right right?

1:06:01 Speaker 3: And if and if it a missed him, it would

1:06:02 Speaker 3: have been a misspep.

1:06:05 Speaker 2: Oh boy lord, I love.

1:06:07 Speaker 6: It every day seven every day a.

1:06:10 Speaker 2: Master, a master of dad jokes. Yeah, that's last week

1:06:15 Speaker 2: when I was on with my buddy Nick View, who's

1:06:16 Speaker 2: from Michigan. I asked him, I said, so, if you're

1:06:19 Speaker 2: a Michigander, does that mean your wife or any other

1:06:23 Speaker 2: woman from Michigan. It would be a michig goose.

1:06:29 Speaker 3: That's what I was going to say. Well, you made

1:06:31 Speaker 3: that comment, I was gonna say, what's good for the

1:06:33 Speaker 3: Michigan goose. That's good for the Michigan.

1:06:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was funny. You didn't have much of a

1:06:39 Speaker 2: sense of humor about He was like, No, no one's

1:06:41 Speaker 2: ever said.

1:06:42 Speaker 6: That a lord.

1:06:44 Speaker 2: I mean not really. He was playing with me, but

1:06:46 Speaker 2: I think, you know it is a People from Michigan

1:06:49 Speaker 2: like that word even more than I do.

1:06:51 Speaker 3: So I have never even heard of that Michigan you do, Yeah,

1:06:55 Speaker 3: and they like they like that just as much as

1:06:57 Speaker 3: throwing up their hand to show you where they live.

1:07:00 Speaker 3: That'sn't always a given. Where do you live at? Well,

1:07:03 Speaker 3: if you go, it's like, we don't do that. We don't.

1:07:08 Speaker 3: Let's try to make the shape of Kentucky.

1:07:10 Speaker 2: That's really yeah, as if like a map of Michigan

1:07:15 Speaker 2: is just imprinted in everyone else's heads. That's pretty funny.

1:07:20 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So when Pap dies, all the work

1:07:25 Speaker 2: and his timber utopia of Andersonia ceased, and it remained

1:07:30 Speaker 2: ceased some thirty one years later, on April eighteenth, Yeah,

1:07:36 Speaker 2: it stood as a sort of ghostly monument to what

1:07:41 Speaker 2: could have been for a long time. Thirty one years later,

1:07:45 Speaker 2: on April eighteenth, nineteen thirty six, in the Mendocino Beacon,

1:07:49 Speaker 2: a writer named C. A. King recounted a story written

1:07:53 Speaker 2: by George J. Tuby of The Humble Times, And it

1:07:57 Speaker 2: was C. A. King's recounting where I first discovered this

1:08:00 Speaker 2: story of Andersonia. The story King tells as a brief

1:08:04 Speaker 2: overview of the one I've just told you, but with

1:08:07 Speaker 2: the added perspective of thirty one years gone by. King

1:08:12 Speaker 2: and Tuby's recounting of the dark fate of Pap Andersen

1:08:15 Speaker 2: and Andersonia includes new, decidedly creepy and decidedly paranormal details.

1:08:24 Speaker 2: The first is that the brand new machinery in the

1:08:27 Speaker 2: Andersonia Mill remained brand new and sparkling thirty one years later,

1:08:33 Speaker 2: despite the perpetual fog and forest damp when one entered

1:08:38 Speaker 2: the ghost town of Andersonia in nineteen thirty six. Everything

1:08:42 Speaker 2: outside was ancient and everything inside sparkling new, as if

1:08:49 Speaker 2: to underscore the point that the mill never milled so

1:08:52 Speaker 2: much as a tree from those south fork of the

1:08:55 Speaker 2: Eel River forests. The second creepy thing is a railroad

1:09:00 Speaker 2: station standing there with only one hundred feet of track

1:09:04 Speaker 2: that disappears into a gully. And yet local hunters report

1:09:10 Speaker 2: finding pieces of railroad rail miles from any civilization, and

1:09:16 Speaker 2: many miles from Andersonia itself, as though flung impossible distances

1:09:22 Speaker 2: by a raging Sasquatch or some other Sylvan protector. And lastly,

1:09:29 Speaker 2: ranchers living near Andersonia report that on certain windy nights,

1:09:34 Speaker 2: the ghost of Pap Anderson comes down from the tall

1:09:38 Speaker 2: mill stacks. Eternally furious at the frustration of his herculean dream,

1:09:44 Speaker 2: he haunts Andersonia and spends stormy nights whimpering tear streaked

1:09:49 Speaker 2: rage into the mill's massive, unused boilers. And Andersonia is

1:09:59 Speaker 2: not only it may also very well be cursed. Immediately

1:10:07 Speaker 2: after Anderson's death, his sons in the timber business didn't

1:10:11 Speaker 2: want to leave Washington to work. Andersonia. Then litigation developed

1:10:15 Speaker 2: among Anderson's young wife and his many heirs. At first,

1:10:21 Speaker 2: there were many interested buyers, in particular a man named Trumbull,

1:10:26 Speaker 2: who went to San Francisco in nineteen oh six to

1:10:28 Speaker 2: finalize the details of his purchase of Andersonia. Well, Trumbull

1:10:35 Speaker 2: arrived in San Francisco only to live through the nineteen

1:10:39 Speaker 2: o six earthquake and massive fire, but the experience of

1:10:44 Speaker 2: his survival was so traumatic he became embittered with California

1:10:48 Speaker 2: and left forever, never to return. That's one purchase of

1:10:54 Speaker 2: Andersonia thwarted. The next perspective buyer was a man named Hicks,

1:11:00 Speaker 2: who had trouble securing the funds to buy Andersonia and

1:11:04 Speaker 2: became so despondent by this failure that he took his

1:11:08 Speaker 2: own life Hicks Partners. Because Hicks was the lead man

1:11:13 Speaker 2: on the purchase, declined to buy the mill themselves. Then,

1:11:18 Speaker 2: by nineteen thirty nine, the timber holdings associated with Andersonia

1:11:23 Speaker 2: had continued to increase in value, and curse or ghost

1:11:26 Speaker 2: or no a man named Barnum, a name associated with

1:11:31 Speaker 2: many a great hoodwinking, resolved to reopen the mill at Andersonia,

1:11:37 Speaker 2: but a short decade later, work that once again had

1:11:41 Speaker 2: never really started, was halted as the company was in

1:11:44 Speaker 2: receivership and facing lawsuits. Then, in October fifteenth of nineteen

1:11:49 Speaker 2: seventy five, almost seventy years to the day since the

1:11:52 Speaker 2: death of Pap Anderson, a company called Andersonia Forest Products

1:11:57 Speaker 2: was established in Arcada, California. But a short nine years later,

1:12:02 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four, its license was suspended by the

1:12:06 Speaker 2: California Secretary of State. And that's the last I know

1:12:10 Speaker 2: of Andersonia, although I believe its first locomotive, nicknamed Gipsy,

1:12:15 Speaker 2: has been preserved and can be seen at the Fort

1:12:17 Speaker 2: Humboldt Logging Museum, and the ruins of Andersonia can still

1:12:22 Speaker 2: be visited and viewed if you're brave enough.

1:12:26 Speaker 3: Wow, sounds like a fun place.

1:12:28 Speaker 6: Yeah, well, it definitely sounded curse, that's for sure.

1:12:31 Speaker 2: I'll admit I wanted to choose a paranormal story today

1:12:36 Speaker 2: because you know, you guys are the absolute masters of

1:12:39 Speaker 2: telling paranormal stories. And I hoped that if I could

1:12:43 Speaker 2: do an okay job of telling a scary story, that

1:12:47 Speaker 2: maybe there would be a Hillbilly horror Stories listener tuning

1:12:50 Speaker 2: into my show that might decide to stick around. So oh, of.

1:12:53 Speaker 6: Course, of course that was really an interesting story too.

1:12:58 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think most of your stories would keep our

1:13:01 Speaker 3: listeners interested. I know you got quite a few listeners

1:13:04 Speaker 3: over the last year or so.

1:13:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well, that's very kind of you to say.

1:13:09 Speaker 2: I very recently have gotten a big increase in listenership.

1:13:14 Speaker 2: Our mutual friend Darren Marler from Weird Darkness was very

1:13:18 Speaker 2: kind and in promoing my show on his and I

1:13:21 Speaker 2: think also that I finally have sort of cracked how

1:13:25 Speaker 2: my show ought to go. I mean, I'm sure you

1:13:28 Speaker 2: guys can speak to this, but I've been doing it

1:13:29 Speaker 2: for just a little bit over a year now, and

1:13:32 Speaker 2: it feels like there's quite a learning curve. One thinks

1:13:35 Speaker 2: you can just kind of hop on a mic and

1:13:37 Speaker 2: do things, but it takes a darn while to learn

1:13:40 Speaker 2: what you're doing at all.

1:13:42 Speaker 6: Well that's the truth, especially for me, Like I just

1:13:46 Speaker 6: was kind of hopped in and had no clue how

1:13:49 Speaker 6: to do anything, and probably still this day. Really don't

1:13:52 Speaker 6: you know, just kind of listen and put my two

1:13:55 Speaker 6: cents in. But it's a lot, it's a lot to do,

1:13:59 Speaker 6: and it's a lot to learn, and we definitely have

1:14:01 Speaker 6: made our mistakes for sure, and you know you just

1:14:03 Speaker 6: kind of got to learn from it and move on

1:14:05 Speaker 6: and you know you'll get there.

1:14:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good advice. I feel like an important thing

1:14:10 Speaker 2: to remember in this modern world we live in today,

1:14:13 Speaker 2: where I feel like everyone is conditioned to just kind

1:14:17 Speaker 2: of succeed right away or think that they should. You know,

1:14:22 Speaker 2: all the articles are always forty under forty, thirty under thirty.

1:14:26 Speaker 2: You know, it's never like sixty people who put in

1:14:30 Speaker 2: a lifetime's worth of hard work and became mega experts

1:14:34 Speaker 2: and are now really successful. We're we're we're absolutely in

1:14:37 Speaker 2: love with the idea of sort of hitting the hitting

1:14:41 Speaker 2: the one armed bandit jackpot immediate success. And so with

1:14:45 Speaker 2: something that takes as much work as podcasting, it can

1:14:49 Speaker 2: sometimes be hard to remember that you've just you know,

1:14:52 Speaker 2: you've got to put the time in.

1:14:56 Speaker 3: I think what's important to keep in mind, though, is

1:14:57 Speaker 3: the reason those forty under forty and thirty under thirty

1:15:01 Speaker 3: type stories are so big is because that's not the norm.

1:15:06 Speaker 3: That's what makes them a.

1:15:07 Speaker 2: Story, right. That's a great point. That's a great point. Well,

1:15:12 Speaker 2: Jerry Tracy, do you guys have a story that maybe

1:15:15 Speaker 2: you want to share with the listeners here, give him

1:15:17 Speaker 2: a little break from me.

1:15:21 Speaker 3: We're tired of telling stories. We do that all we

1:15:23 Speaker 3: thought this was just going to be a break for us.

1:15:24 Speaker 3: We had to work on our off day. You're I

1:15:31 Speaker 3: actually have a story. It's in my book, and I've

1:15:35 Speaker 3: told this story on Jim Harold's show, which is wildly popular,

1:15:39 Speaker 3: his Campfires show. And he actually said at the time,

1:15:44 Speaker 3: and he's been doing this for I think thirteen years now,

1:15:47 Speaker 3: he said at the time that this was his favorite

1:15:50 Speaker 3: story at that point. Now he's probably had some since then,

1:15:53 Speaker 3: but I'll start with this story because it's my favorite

1:15:57 Speaker 3: story to tell, and it's one that changed my life.

1:16:00 Speaker 2: I can't wait.

1:16:03 Speaker 3: Okay, so we're going to go back and a little

1:16:06 Speaker 3: bit of a backstory. My mother passed away in two

1:16:10 Speaker 3: thousand and seven, and she was only fifty four years old.

1:16:13 Speaker 3: It was an unexpected death. She went to the hospital

1:16:16 Speaker 3: for something that we thought was going to be no

1:16:18 Speaker 3: big deal, and then she didn't make it past the

1:16:21 Speaker 3: next day. My mother and I did not have the

1:16:24 Speaker 3: greatest relationship up to this point. There was a lot

1:16:28 Speaker 3: of I don't know, it's just we used to be

1:16:31 Speaker 3: really close when I was younger, and at the time

1:16:34 Speaker 3: of my teen years, we kind of started getting a

1:16:37 Speaker 3: little more distant, started having those typical teenage, teenager and

1:16:42 Speaker 3: parent confrontations, and it just seemed like as I got

1:16:46 Speaker 3: older and moved out of the house, got married, and

1:16:48 Speaker 3: had kids, that relationship never really was repaired, and it

1:16:52 Speaker 3: would be frustrated and somewhat to the point to where

1:16:56 Speaker 3: I'm ashamed at the way I conducted myself as I

1:16:59 Speaker 3: was older. In the years before she passed away, there

1:17:03 Speaker 3: were times where I would go over the house and

1:17:05 Speaker 3: visit my dad. She would be in a back room

1:17:07 Speaker 3: and I wouldn't even go back there or say hi.

1:17:10 Speaker 3: She would call and I wouldn't pick up the phone

1:17:12 Speaker 3: because I saw it was her, or i'd rush her

1:17:14 Speaker 3: off the phone when I did.

1:17:15 Speaker 2: Talk to her. So I imagine that I made her

1:17:18 Speaker 2: passing very extra painful for you.

1:17:20 Speaker 3: It did.

1:17:21 Speaker 2: It did.

1:17:21 Speaker 3: There was a lot of guilt, obviously, because I didn't

1:17:24 Speaker 3: expect her. She didn't have a terminal illness or anything,

1:17:27 Speaker 3: and I obviously it wasn't expecting her to pass away,

1:17:31 Speaker 3: but I didn't have that perspective until after the fact.

1:17:35 Speaker 3: And at this time, I was doing stand up comedy

1:17:38 Speaker 3: and where about six months passed her death. And I'm

1:17:43 Speaker 3: at this little hole in the wall bar. I mean,

1:17:45 Speaker 3: I bet if it was wall to wall with people

1:17:48 Speaker 3: there probably wouldn't couldn't have been fifty people in the place.

1:17:51 Speaker 3: It had two rooms. The main room was the bar,

1:17:54 Speaker 3: and then it had a step down room with seating

1:17:56 Speaker 3: for about twenty five thirty people that they would do

1:17:59 Speaker 3: carry over and what have you in there. And they

1:18:01 Speaker 3: allowed us to do a comedy show one night, and

1:18:03 Speaker 3: it was me and a gentleman named Chuck. So I

1:18:08 Speaker 3: had nothing else to do that day. I get there

1:18:10 Speaker 3: a couple hours before the show. I've got my notes

1:18:12 Speaker 3: on paperwork. I'm just kind of going over my routine.

1:18:16 Speaker 3: And it's about this time that this quintessential biker and

1:18:22 Speaker 3: his girlfriend come into the bar. When I say stereotypical,

1:18:28 Speaker 3: I mean stereotypical. I mean they both had the leather on.

1:18:32 Speaker 3: He was probably about six one six y two, big,

1:18:36 Speaker 3: burly beard, burly hair, had the bandanna on and kind

1:18:41 Speaker 3: of a rough looking guy. And she was kind of

1:18:43 Speaker 3: the same way as far as on the woman's side,

1:18:46 Speaker 3: minus the beard. She didn't have a beard, but she

1:18:50 Speaker 3: she was. You know, she had a couple of scars

1:18:53 Speaker 3: on her face and she was probably late forties. He

1:18:55 Speaker 3: was probably late forties. But anyway, so they come in,

1:18:58 Speaker 3: super nice people. We're talking and they find out I'm

1:19:03 Speaker 3: a comedian. I ask them, you know, hey, you guys

1:19:04 Speaker 3: staying for the show. Well, they had no idea there's

1:19:06 Speaker 3: gonna be a comedy show. Which it's not like there

1:19:08 Speaker 3: was a big billboard outside or anything. And you know,

1:19:11 Speaker 3: they said they might hang around. They were basically stopping

1:19:14 Speaker 3: here before they went to a couple of other bars,

1:19:16 Speaker 3: and you know, I sit there and talked to them

1:19:19 Speaker 3: a little bit, you know, chit chat, small talk, nothing major.

1:19:21 Speaker 3: They obviously don't know me, I don't know them, and

1:19:25 Speaker 3: we're probably about an hour from the show. I decide

1:19:27 Speaker 3: I'm going to go into that little step down room

1:19:30 Speaker 3: where the show is going to be so I can

1:19:32 Speaker 3: go over my notes. It'd be a little quieter in there.

1:19:35 Speaker 3: As I'm sitting in there, they come in and sit

1:19:38 Speaker 3: down cross the room from me. But you know, I

1:19:42 Speaker 3: see them sitting there and I'm like, I feel bad

1:19:43 Speaker 3: because they're sitting all by their stuff and I'm in

1:19:45 Speaker 3: the room. I don't want them to think I'm ignoring them,

1:19:47 Speaker 3: so I felt obligated to go over there and talk

1:19:49 Speaker 3: to them, which I really didn't want to do because

1:19:51 Speaker 3: I really wanted to go over my prep. Yeah right,

1:19:55 Speaker 3: and so I go over and start talking to them,

1:19:57 Speaker 3: and literally within a minute minute and a half of

1:19:59 Speaker 3: us sitting down, the uh the man says, well, your

1:20:07 Speaker 3: mom just wants you to know that everything will be okay.

1:20:11 Speaker 3: So initially I'm thinking this is some kind of joke

1:20:13 Speaker 3: that I missed because they were crying. He was telling

1:20:15 Speaker 3: me jokes in the other room, because anytime somebody finds

1:20:17 Speaker 3: out you're a comedian, the first thing I want to

1:20:18 Speaker 3: do is tell you jokes, which is odd, but which

1:20:22 Speaker 3: is odd because when I find out that people will

1:20:24 Speaker 3: work at McDonald's, I don't ask them to come in

1:20:25 Speaker 3: the kitchen and let me start flipping burgerstors. I can

1:20:28 Speaker 3: see my technique, but people do that different when you're

1:20:30 Speaker 3: a comedian. So anyways, I'm sitting down and they say, well,

1:20:36 Speaker 3: your mom just wants you to know that everything's okay.

1:20:38 Speaker 3: So I did like the little fake, awkward laugh, you know,

1:20:40 Speaker 3: thinking I missed a joke, and the young lady reaches

1:20:43 Speaker 3: over she puts her hand right on top of my

1:20:45 Speaker 3: hand and said, no, your mom really wants you to

1:20:48 Speaker 3: know that everything is okay. And in that moment, I

1:20:55 Speaker 3: literally broke down. I have a hard time telling this

1:20:57 Speaker 3: story without breaking down at that same point. A matter

1:21:00 Speaker 3: of fact, we did a live event in Memphis last year,

1:21:05 Speaker 3: I think in October, and I literally broke down on

1:21:07 Speaker 3: stage and had to wait before I could finish. Because

1:21:10 Speaker 3: it's just as many times as I've written this story

1:21:12 Speaker 3: and told this story, which has been a bunch, it

1:21:15 Speaker 3: never seemed the emotion never goes away from it. But

1:21:20 Speaker 3: I lost it to the point to where I knew

1:21:24 Speaker 3: that she was there. I knew that they were there

1:21:27 Speaker 3: for a reason that I had no clue about, and

1:21:30 Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if they had a clue about. And so,

1:21:34 Speaker 3: you know, we just started talking about it, and I said,

1:21:36 Speaker 3: you know, we didn't have the best relationship and there

1:21:40 Speaker 3: was a lot of guilt and you know, and I

1:21:42 Speaker 3: explained some of the stuff already that I explained to

1:21:44 Speaker 3: you about, you know, not answering phone calls and all that,

1:21:47 Speaker 3: and they said, yeah, you know, she knows that, and

1:21:49 Speaker 3: she just wants you to know that everything's completely fine,

1:21:51 Speaker 3: that's not something that you need to worry about. It's

1:21:54 Speaker 3: not something that needs to be on your mind. That

1:21:57 Speaker 3: you know, all is basically forgiven. And I said, yeah,

1:22:01 Speaker 3: I you know, that's a load off of my shoulders

1:22:06 Speaker 3: to be able to hear that. And then they just

1:22:09 Speaker 3: went on to start talking about other stuff like, you know, well,

1:22:11 Speaker 3: she feels like that you should be doing you know,

1:22:13 Speaker 3: bigger and better things than you know, like being at

1:22:16 Speaker 3: this little bar tonight and all this stuff. And my

1:22:18 Speaker 3: mom saw me perform one time. It was at the

1:22:21 Speaker 3: Comedy Caravan up in Louisville, which was the biggest night

1:22:24 Speaker 3: club or the comedy club in that area. And matter

1:22:29 Speaker 3: of fact, Tom Sobel owned that club for the longest time.

1:22:32 Speaker 3: He started owned it for like thirty years, and he's

1:22:34 Speaker 3: the gentleman that founded Gallagher and some other big names

1:22:38 Speaker 3: out there. So that was, you know, his agent and

1:22:40 Speaker 3: all that. So he was a pretty big name in

1:22:41 Speaker 3: the comedy business. And you know, so my mom did

1:22:44 Speaker 3: see me perform once, and you know, my comedy career

1:22:47 Speaker 3: really was just starting about the time that she saw me.

1:22:51 Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, I think it was my

1:22:52 Speaker 3: second performance ever and I was still only like probably

1:22:55 Speaker 3: less than a year into it, so you know, a

1:22:58 Speaker 3: lot of girling to still do. I really didn't to

1:23:00 Speaker 3: be anywhere other than a place like I was that night,

1:23:03 Speaker 3: but you know, and they kept saying some things to me.

1:23:06 Speaker 3: But to be honest with you, I don't remember much

1:23:08 Speaker 3: after that moment. I was so overcome with emotion that

1:23:14 Speaker 3: you know, I don't remember much about that night after that,

1:23:17 Speaker 3: not the show, not anything. I mean, I've performed and

1:23:20 Speaker 3: I guess I did okay, But you know, I at

1:23:23 Speaker 3: that moment just completely changed my life because even though

1:23:28 Speaker 3: I grew up in a haunted house and I knew

1:23:31 Speaker 3: in my heart that there were spirits and life went on,

1:23:34 Speaker 3: this was my proof. This was my undoubt undoubtedly proof

1:23:41 Speaker 3: that there is a life and that my mom was

1:23:44 Speaker 3: still out there and she was willing to send somebody

1:23:48 Speaker 3: in there, somehow, some way to give me this message.

1:23:51 Speaker 3: And they would have had no clue. They would have

1:23:53 Speaker 3: had no clue. And then right after that they got

1:23:55 Speaker 3: up and left and I've never seen them since. So,

1:23:58 Speaker 3: you know, these two bikers ran walk into a bar

1:24:01 Speaker 3: and start telling me stuff about my mom. And you know,

1:24:04 Speaker 3: that's a story that you can't write. I mean, how

1:24:06 Speaker 3: does that happen? I don't know if they were angels

1:24:09 Speaker 3: or I mean, I don't know if they even knew that,

1:24:12 Speaker 3: you know, I don't know if they've ever been used

1:24:14 Speaker 3: like it since then, but they were sent there for

1:24:18 Speaker 3: a reason.

1:24:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, that's an amazing story. I'm misty eyed myself.

1:24:22 Speaker 2: I don't know if you can see me sort of

1:24:24 Speaker 2: biting my lips, but yeah, that wow. So do you

1:24:28 Speaker 2: think then, do you think that she channeled through them

1:24:33 Speaker 2: to speak to you and that it's likely that the

1:24:36 Speaker 2: biker and his girlfriend don't have any memory of it themselves,

1:24:42 Speaker 2: or do you think that there was something more intentional

1:24:45 Speaker 2: to it on their side as well, Like maybe this

1:24:48 Speaker 2: is something they've done for people before because they somehow

1:24:51 Speaker 2: have that sixth sense or something.

1:24:53 Speaker 3: I have no clue. I have no clue whatsoever. I mean,

1:24:58 Speaker 3: it could have been a situation where they walked out

1:25:00 Speaker 3: of that bar and it was like, what the hell

1:25:01 Speaker 3: just happened? You know, maybe they didn't have a clue,

1:25:03 Speaker 3: it was just a spur of the moment thing. I

1:25:04 Speaker 3: have no idea. I did figure out though years later,

1:25:08 Speaker 3: it never made this connection. The little bar was called

1:25:11 Speaker 3: Red Eyes and it was a little hole in the wall.

1:25:16 Speaker 3: I mean literally a hole in the wall had set

1:25:18 Speaker 3: on a corner of a you know, on these two

1:25:21 Speaker 3: little quiet roads, so you had to want to get there.

1:25:25 Speaker 3: And I remember my mom, my mom, myself and my

1:25:30 Speaker 3: dad rarely did anything by ourselves, but a couple of

1:25:33 Speaker 3: years before she passed away, the last thing that we

1:25:36 Speaker 3: did all do together was we went to that little

1:25:39 Speaker 3: bar and shop pool.

1:25:41 Speaker 5: Uh.

1:25:41 Speaker 3: And I didn't remember that until literally, probably maybe three

1:25:47 Speaker 3: or four years ago. And that just happens to be

1:25:51 Speaker 3: the place she showed up. And maybe that was a

1:25:52 Speaker 3: connection that I didn't draw.

1:25:54 Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing. And is your is your father or

1:25:58 Speaker 2: still alive or was he still alive at the time?

1:26:00 Speaker 3: Now he is?

1:26:01 Speaker 2: He still laugh Wow? That that's really that's really I've

1:26:05 Speaker 2: got the goosies, Jerry, that's quite a story.

1:26:09 Speaker 3: Well, I've got the ganders.

1:26:10 Speaker 2: So and we brought it full circle. Yay, Oh my gosh,

1:26:17 Speaker 2: that is that is I can see why that's Jim

1:26:19 Speaker 2: Harold's favorite story and now it's one of mine as well.

1:26:22 Speaker 2: What a remarkable tale. Thank you so much for sharing

1:26:26 Speaker 2: it with us.

1:26:27 Speaker 3: You're welcome.

1:26:29 Speaker 2: So uh, guys, Hillbilly horror stories. Do you guys have

1:26:32 Speaker 2: any upcoming events? Don't you have a cruise planned? Could

1:26:36 Speaker 2: you tell me a little tell my listeners a little bit.

1:26:38 Speaker 2: Excuse me, tell our listeners a little bit about that.

1:26:42 Speaker 2: We do.

1:26:43 Speaker 3: We have a extra large row boat, so there's room

1:26:47 Speaker 3: if anybody wants to get on and be right down

1:26:49 Speaker 3: the Ohio River. It's now we're actually uh it's it

1:26:53 Speaker 3: should be fine. It's through Royal Caribbean and it's going

1:26:57 Speaker 3: to be from Miami to the Bahamas. It's a four

1:27:00 Speaker 3: day cruise. It takes off September nineteenth and goes to

1:27:04 Speaker 3: the twenty third, and last I checked, we had over

1:27:07 Speaker 3: two hundred people already booked to come aboard. So it's

1:27:11 Speaker 3: gonna be fun. It's gonna be us and three other

1:27:14 Speaker 3: podcasts that are going to be their mysterious circumstances, the

1:27:18 Speaker 3: Brohile podcasts and the Shane Waters podcast. Threw a blank

1:27:24 Speaker 3: completely at the thing, but it's gonna be a complete blast.

1:27:31 Speaker 3: We're gonna do. We're gonna have one day where we're

1:27:32 Speaker 3: gonna be doing a live show with all four podcasts

1:27:36 Speaker 3: and uh yeah, the foul Play podcast. Yeah, I just yeah, yeah,

1:27:42 Speaker 3: and Shane By the way, Shane is big time. I

1:27:46 Speaker 3: mean big time. This guy. He helped solve some of

1:27:51 Speaker 3: the redheaded murder cases that was in West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana.

1:27:57 Speaker 3: But there was there's some cases back in the seventies

1:27:59 Speaker 3: where they're were a bunch of redheaded women of the

1:28:03 Speaker 3: night we'll say, ladies of the evening that went missing,

1:28:07 Speaker 3: and uh, they found their bodies, but they couldn't rectify

1:28:10 Speaker 3: who they were. They never could find the names for

1:28:12 Speaker 3: these people. And Shane went through and actually helped find

1:28:16 Speaker 3: the identities of two or three of these young women.

1:28:19 Speaker 3: Uh here recently so and he's spoken at crime Con.

1:28:22 Speaker 3: He's closed down crime Con. The Netflix television show The Followers. Uh,

1:28:27 Speaker 3: he was one of the writers or researchers i should

1:28:30 Speaker 3: say for that, and uh, they're doing a sequel he's

1:28:33 Speaker 3: gonna be a part of. Yeah, Shane Shane is big time.

1:28:35 Speaker 3: He's a thirty year old guy that's about six eight

1:28:39 Speaker 3: six 'y nine. He is ah and has the heart

1:28:42 Speaker 3: of a teddy bear.

1:28:44 Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, it is. He's a He's an amazing person,

1:28:48 Speaker 6: just as nice as he can be. And we're just

1:28:50 Speaker 6: so proud of him for what he's accomplished.

1:28:52 Speaker 2: It's a lot that's remarkable. That sounds he's amazing.

1:28:57 Speaker 3: Hillbilly Horror stories dot Com. We have a a tab

1:29:01 Speaker 3: on there this completely dedicated to the cruise. Gets all

1:29:04 Speaker 3: the information the travel agent to call. It's got all

1:29:07 Speaker 3: the videos and prices of rooms and everything. But this

1:29:10 Speaker 3: thing starts. You can get in with two people in

1:29:13 Speaker 3: an interior room for like nine hundred bucks and that

1:29:15 Speaker 3: includes all your food and a couple of different stops

1:29:20 Speaker 3: that we do out there, and then the live show

1:29:22 Speaker 3: that we do. It's going to be a fun time.

1:29:25 Speaker 2: Gosh, that sounds fantastic. I might have to go book

1:29:27 Speaker 2: some tickets for myself and my family right now. What

1:29:32 Speaker 2: a cruise? You should really be super fun? All right, well,

1:29:35 Speaker 2: hey yeah I should. I've got to run it by

1:29:39 Speaker 2: the family accountant first. But uh, if she says, okay,

1:29:44 Speaker 2: maybe we'll see you there, well, Jerry, that great, It's

1:29:50 Speaker 2: sure would. I would love it so, Jerry Tracy, thank

1:29:52 Speaker 2: you so much for being here today. It's been an

1:29:55 Speaker 2: absolute pleasure to share this time with you and share stories. Jerry.

1:30:00 Speaker 2: I'm honestly still a little bit moved by your story.

1:30:04 Speaker 2: I was thinking all about the Kursten Haunted story that

1:30:10 Speaker 2: I told, and now I hardly remember it because I'm

1:30:13 Speaker 2: just thinking about that moment with you and the bikers

1:30:15 Speaker 2: in the bar and what that must have been like. Man,

1:30:19 Speaker 2: thank you so much for sharing that. Well. It's Hillbilly

1:30:23 Speaker 2: Horror Stories Everybody, a fantastic podcast available anywhere you get

1:30:28 Speaker 2: your pods. You can go to Hillbilly Horror Stories dot com.

1:30:31 Speaker 2: You can book tickets to the cruise. They've got some

1:30:33 Speaker 2: fantastic merch there. They've got announcements about upcoming live shows.

1:30:38 Speaker 2: I love the show. I love Jerry and Tracy. They've

1:30:41 Speaker 2: been amazing friends and mentors to me on my podcast journey.

1:30:45 Speaker 2: Please engage with them, subscribe to their show. You will

1:30:49 Speaker 2: be so happy you did. And again, Jerry and Tracy,

1:30:52 Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. For Jerry and

1:30:56 Speaker 2: Tracy PAULI I'm Zeven Odlebird and this has been kind

1:31:01 Speaker 2: of murdery, and this has been kind of murders tribute

1:31:39 Speaker 2: to Jerry Polly. Once again, Jerry, I have no words

1:31:42 Speaker 2: for how deeply I and so many will miss you.

1:31:45 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for everything you've done for me

1:31:48 Speaker 2: and again for so many people but since this is

1:31:51 Speaker 2: my show, thank you so much for everything you've done

1:31:53 Speaker 2: for me. You will live forever in my heart and

1:32:00 Speaker 2: ah man, this tribute feels so inadequate, but Jerry, I

1:32:06 Speaker 2: love you and everybody please rejoin me next Thursday for

1:32:13 Speaker 2: a regularly scheduled kind of Murdery episode. I'm Zevan Odleberg

1:32:18 Speaker 2: for Jerry and for Tracy Polly. This has been kind

1:32:23 Speaker 2: of Murdery.

1:32:24 Speaker 1: If you like the show case, subscribe with you and

1:32:26 Speaker 1: tell your friends. You can find us on social media

1:32:29 Speaker 1: at kind of Murdery or email at kinda Murdery at

1:32:32 Speaker 1: gmail dot com