Wizards of Death with Anson Maddocks (Magic the Gathering Artist) - PART THREE

0:00 Warning, Kind of Murdery contains adult themes, explicit language, and descriptions of violence. It is not suitable for anyone, and we recommend you stop listening now. I turned around and I'm apologizing to the other people that are watching it, and their eyes are looking past me, and they all they're all just like white and petrified. And one of my friends says, oh, that's much worse. Hello everyone, and welcome to kind of Murdering, a true prime podcast that's mostly about murder and always about the strange and compelling stories that arise when the path less traveled twists to darkness and those who walk its shadows surrendered to violence and moral corruption.

0:52 We have a perilous journey ahead, so thank you for lending me your courage and good company. I'm your host, Evan Odelberg, and this is kind of Murdering. I'm back again, coming to you from snowy Tahoe. There was a howler of a blizzard on Tuesday that dropped sixteen inches of snow and shut down the resorts and roads. Fingers cross Those roads will be open today so I can head for Palm Springs and meet the spawners at their risk. I'm optimistic they will be. But back to talking about the snowstorm.

1:21 I woke up to the sound of avalanche bombs shaking the house when I got up early to edit on Wednesday morning. Hey, and this is cool, especially if you're a history geek like me. But Kirkwood actually has a functioning World War two howitzer, which is essentially an anti tank cannon that they fire at the cirk Ridge that's the highest ridge above the resort to knock dangerous, unstable snow overhangs down before the public arrives. That's right, they shell the mountain with an honest to god howitzer, all in the name of your safety.

1:53 And if that's not kind of murdery, well then I don't know what is. All right, Time to focus here. I'm in my Mobo podcast studio again, complete with duct tape mikes and a stack of DVDs and books to ensure the mic is tall enough to talk into. If you're curious about exactly what's in that stack, well, even if you're not curious, I'm going to tell you anyway. The foundation is a double O seven specter blu ray, followed by three John Chippellina, a legendary ice pick in your temple rock and roll guitarist John Chippolina DVDs topped off by the Oxford American Dictionary.

2:27 That's my microphone extension plans. So there you go. And as you're likely aware, I'm back from my third visit with Original Magic, the Gathering Artist Icon and icon a class antsinematics. This is part three of Wizards of Death, the True Story of Russia's Magic Murders. And that's right, I said, part three. So if you haven't heard parts one and two yet, go back and listen to them and then rejoin us. We'll save you a seat. If you're all caught up, well then I'm just going to jump right in. We'll be rewinding just a bit entering the conversation.

2:58 In the midst of the story of Gostia the Wizard is Anson and I are discussing the fact that Russians have an enduring belief even to the present day, in the reality and efficacy of wizards, witches and witchcraft. And from there we intend to uncover what truths we can and solve what mysteries we may. And Anson brings us a true kind of murdery story from his own life. Wizards of Death. The True Story of Russia's Magic Murders with Ansonmatics. Part three starts now, it was common, especially around the turn of the century, for Russians to go to explicitly titled and in fact licensed by the state witches.

3:52 Being a witch doctor was an actual, officially recognized profession, and you had to pay the government for license to do it. So the point here being that as wild as this all sounds, there's actually a really long, even ancient, cultural tradition of believing in these sorts of mystics and in the efficacy of what they do, which adds a little bit of understanding to why this guy was so successful. People weren't just dumb. It's like, this is something you do in Russia. It's hard to argue as something your grandma that told you since you're a kid.

4:28 Right, That's why a lot of these a lot of these beliefs are very persistent. Yeah, and if every other person believes in it, then, you know, makes it harder to get away. Yeah, that's true. And that's also why it's so darned difficult to stamp out, you know, intolerant or bigoted beliefs that we all may sort of know are well passed their time and odious. But as you're alluding to, when when generations of people espoused them, or when they're espoused by somebody you love deeply, even if that particular belief is wrong, it can be hard to condemn a person you love, which can make it difficult as well to pull yourself away from a belief that you may find distasteful.

5:13 Speaking generally, right, you know, it's hard to walk away from something when you're defending one of your loved ones, you know, right, the things that they believe in, and somebody else is like bashing it. You think you can be torn in that moment, right, So here we go back to it long history of this stuff in Russia, whether whether it's fortune telling, mirrors or bringing back dead people from the grave. In modern Russia, the belief of the power of the wizard lives on every Kiosk sells newspapers publishing long lists of advertisements for masters of magic who promise to fix a person's success in love, sexual life, or business masters of magic.

5:53 Huh. I'm not sure in the context of magic the gathering, although I play a lot of it myself, I don't think a master of magic would be the person I would necessarily go to first to fix my love or sexual life. Just just going to throw that out there.

6:11 Oh boy, I'm not going to say anything. So such alternative healers and magic thrive in the country where only fifteen percent of the population trusts the state medical system. This is according to the Levada Center survey, and where many citizens remain suspicious of the merits of modern medicine. So there's maybe a political consequence thing happening here too, where in a country where the government is so repressive and controlling, because the modern medical system is run by the repressive state, people are much less likely to trust a traditional doctor, which makes them, in sort of a zero sum game sense, more likely to trust these charlatan wizards.

6:57 So there's your context. So, despite his lab lifestyle, Matt Erosion's greed got the better of him and he devised a scheme to earn cash even quicker. Here it was he would befriend a future victim and use his charm to convince them to transfer all of their funds into cash, bag the cash and go to him, where the two would ostensibly travel to a grandmother living three hundred kilometers away from Moscow. Goosha would claim that they would amass numerous riches via his magical powers. So what his scam was that these people bought into was take all the money you have, bring it to me, and I will, essentially, like tribbles, cause your money to physically multiply alongside my grandmother right there in front of your face, which just sounds super wacky.

7:43 But people buy into all kinds of stuff. I guess this kind of sounds like church too. I will bless your cash and you will have more cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is it a seed or something? Yeah? Yeah, yeah right. Oh man, yeah, I'm sorry, Please go on, it's true. It's I mean, I don't want to get too far afield that people are of I respect everyone's beliefs, but you do you have a point there. Oh, I would be remissed. Now. You mentioned you went to the magazine store sometimes to look for visual inspiration.

8:15 So what what were some magazines that you found some visual inspiration in? Uh, the French photo magazines. I had a lot of those. They were just the high contrast going between you know, sexy images to kind of shocking images. It was kind of pulpy reference material. Got it. Can you give me any actual titles? Oh? Any of the magazines? Do you recall any of them? French Photo is Oh, well, I don't think it's French Photo. It's just it's It's photo magazine, and it's the French version of it is a lot different than the American version.

8:56 Got it. Very difference between heavy metal and metal her so it was heavy metal. Another one that you would sometimes look at it. I remember those very well too. Yeah, I was collecting those since I was nine years old. Wow. Yeah, as long as it wasn't too violent. My mom was pretty okay with me absorbing media. Much less concerned about violence than sex. My parents too, exactly exactly, you know, going back to your mom didn't let you watch mister Rogers because she didn't want you to trust strangers, of which is which is an amazing call.

9:31 It totally makes sense. He's sort of humorous in light of what a sort of cultural luminary mister Rogers has become all these years later. But just the other day, I was out with my daughter Daisy, who's eleven, and she told she tells me a joke and she goes dad. She says, what's a kidnappers? Favorite shoes. You want to guess what a kidnappers favorite shoes are? Oh, I don't know, white vans. Oh god, Oh, Brenda is gonna love that. My wife has the most horrific jokes. Oh yeah. I was like, well, you know, I guess, honey.

10:16 I'm glad that you are aware of that. That's that's sort of the direction I went with that. I was reminded of that when you mentioned your mom. Oh yeah, my opinion of mister Rogers is better than it was. Then, Yeah, all right, that it's been decided. We like mister Rogers just the way he is dead and buried. I kid of course, Fred Rogers is basically a saint. And speaking of saints, let's dive back into the story of our sinner. Huh. We returned to Geosha the Wizard. So the first victim potential victim that he chooses is a married businesswoman named Olga r.

10:51 But to his surprise, he accidentally picked a cannier woman than he thought, and she caught onto his blood and cut off all contact with him. So he thought to himself, well, this plan doesn't really seem to be working. So he got rid of the money and grandmother part of the plan and instead offered to perform magic rituals in his client's homes. Matt Erosan's first alleged victim was twenty three year old Natalia Trepezenakova, a beauty queen an aspiring model who arrived in Moscow from Nizve Novagord looking for love and success.

11:26 She used to thumb through photos of rich bankers in Russian Forbes, dreaming that one of them would marry her. One day. She saved money for a business startup, her friends said, but then she apparently fell in with Gsha the Wizard due to an injury she'd suffered as a teenager while rowing, Natalia suffered from spinal discarniation, which caused her pain and discomfort while walking in heels and on the catwalk. During her last visit home, Natalia reportedly told her parents that a Moscow magician named Ghosha had advised her and here we go this is similar to the original scheme, had advised her to withdraw all the cash she had in her bank accounts to give to him so that he could charge the money with energy meant to multiply her fortunes.

12:11 Her father, Valerie, protested against the strange affair, but his daughter apparently did not listen to them. He said, Natalia like round figures. She said she had one million rubles, which is more or was at the time more than thirty thousand dollars. After being taken in by Ghostia's claims of spiritual healing. Several years before, he'd managed to convince her to cut off contact with her boyfriend and convince her that a friend from the modeling agency had attempted to poison her. So, just like a cult leader again, he's isolating her from the good influences in her life and convincing her that they're bad influences.

12:48 So he got her to cut off contact with the people who might protect her, and, knowing that she fully believed in everything he said, he came up with this give me your thirty thousand dollars scheme. On September twenty first, twenty eleven, she arrives in Moscow and sits waiting for him in her apartment. At some point during the night, he arrives and enters and offers to make drinks for them. Then he went to the kitchen and got a glass of alcohol, which he laced with a mixture of heroin and methanone.

13:14 Not long after drinking it, Natalia passes out, and Ghosha injects her with a syringe containing more heroin before disposing of it and giving her another clean one in an attempt to simulate an overdose. However, either by miscalculation or by underestimating the strength of Natalia, she didn't die, but simply remained unconscious. Anxious that his plan wasn't working, this guy takes her to the bathroom and drowns her. Then he pours out some food for her dog, grabs the cash in the kitchen and some extra jewelry, and leaves.

13:47 The following morning, Natalia's parents have been calling her and she's not obviously answering or returning her calls, so they call mat Erosion. Actually they write too mat Erosion through a friend, a mutual friend that knew both of them and asked what happened to Natalia and Goosha the wizard. Matt Erosion claimed that he hadn't seen her in four days and that she was on vacation in Georgia. Alarmed, her parents travel to Moscow, and upon arrival they noticed that the light has been left on in her apartment.

14:16 They contact the landlady, who opens the door and finds Natalia dead in the bathtub. So, apparently because of that herniated disc back injury that I had referred to earlier, Natalia did have something of a history with painkilling drugs, and so even her parents initially suspect that she may in fact have overdosed, But then they start to wonder if something else might have occurred because the syringe, ultimately the police tell them, lacked any fingerprints and it appeared to have been scrubbed precisely as though somebody had made a great effort to erase the evidence of another party, which we know somebody did Ghosha the Wizard.

14:56 But despite these suspicions, no official criminal investigation and was initiated. Well four months later, two more of Matt Erosion's patients were found dead under similar circumstances. Through his contact with models, he came across twenty one year old Maria and thirty eight year old Natalia, same name as the first victim, Natalia argre Covey, a mother and daughter from Krasnodar, Man. This is like, I am having a tough time with all these like originally cyrillic transcribed into English names by apologies.

15:27 I feel like feel like a rank amateur here, but a lot of consonants. Yeah, come on, Russians, make it easier for me. You don't have anything else more important going on right now, do you? All right? So he kills a mother and daughter, same deal. They're found dead in their apartments, apparently from overdose. Each of them had more than twenty times as much heroin in their bodies as the first Natalia, So clearly Ghosha thought, gosh, I almost didn't use enough on the first lady, so he just really went forward on the second too, and they're found in the same way.

16:06 He then moves on again, and he is believed to, although not convicted of, he is believed to have been involved in the disappearance of a fourth woman named Ena Filipova, a thirty one year old businesswoman from the same town who was a longtime client of his, who on December twenty nine, twenty eleven, was last seen carrying all of her savings with her and was en route to Ghosha's apartment. Her body has never been found. While examining the Argakov's apartment. This is the mother and daughter pair of victims, investigators noticed something peculiar in the ashtray.

16:42 Next to the light cigarettes that Natalia was known to smoke. They found standard ones with teeth imprints of an unidentified male. After investigating their friends and their phone call histories, they were eventually led to Matt Erosion. Coincidentally, perhaps he smoked the same type of cigarettes which were all so found in the first Natalia Natalia trappns Cova's ash tray. So this guy, who had been so careful about some things, left his teeth bitten cigarettes in the ashtrays of all of his victims.

17:12 That don't seem so smart. Not as bad as Ted Bundy, though he left his teeth prints on one of his victims at least, Yeah, that's considering that so many people are identified by dental records. That does seem pretty foolish for a purportedly genius level intellect, that's for sure, exactly So, Yeah, so he left his bitten cigarettes in the ash trays of all of his victims. Gosha, with the cigarette connection, was arrested and his house was searched, at which point the authorities found six point six kilos of heroin on the premises I have a question, instead of murdering all these women and taking their life avings, how about just sell six point six kilo's a heroine that's worth some money.

18:06 I mean, did he get him it? Obviously? It obviously wasn't just about the money, obviously. I mean I was gonna say, did he even get enough money from his victims to pay for all the heroin he bought to kill them? You know, it might your your sentence for selling heroine and Russia might be worse than model murder. Yeah, thinking of selling heroin and Russia. Don't just murder models? Yeah yeah, yeah, all right. They find all that heroine, at which point he admits to being in the first victim's apartment, but he claims that she had gotten drunk dun cocaine and then had oral sex with him before she undressed and went to the bathroom, and then he felt grossed out by it all, packed his stuff and left.

18:55 That's what That was his version of that story. But the police, who initially had failed to check the security footage, which is bizarre, checked it now and discovered that you could clearly see Ghosha leaving the apartment carrying with him some kind of heavy package, at which point they now had enough evidence to charge him with the murders when you combine the security footage with the heroine, as well as the decorations and cards which I hadn't mentioned yet, But they found a bunch of knickknacks that had belonged to his second set of mother and daughter victims in his home.

19:32 But originally it had taken more than a year for the police to investigate the first murder. The chairman of the Security Committee of the State Parliament in Russia, a man named Alexander, said that quote there are as many Charlatans among policemen as among magicians. That seems like a quote for a bumper sticker or a T shirt. And if it weren't for Kenstein's involvement, Goosha the Wizard might still be luring beautiful women to his services. But the chairman of the Security Committee, upon hearing the pleas of Natalia the first Natalia's parents, pushed the police to look into the killing.

20:10 They discovered, As I said, the security footage and which also included not only mat Erosion but traps Nakova herself entering matt Erosion's building with a plastic bag in her hand. And this is the kicker. The footage of matt erosion of Gosha the Wizard leaving a couple hours later, and he's carrying the same plastic bag that she entered with. It was only after police compared the CCTV footage from all the crime scenes that they realized each time the same man was seen entering and leaving the apartment buildings with a sports bag in three different regions of Moscow.

20:48 So there you go. Once they actually bothered to look at the apartment security footage of each of the murder victims, very was coming and going with the same bag under his arm each time. So it wasn't It wasn't It took Sherlock Holmes or Hercule Powow or whoever the Russian version of that would be to solve this case. It was like, just just try at all, please try at all, and look what happens. So as for a ghost of the Wizard, he went with the old shaggy boombostic excuse, which is, you know, the Sai banging on the counter.

21:21 It wasn't me. He went with, yeah, it looks like me, but it's not me. That that was his answer even though I had a lot of people are trying to steal my style. Man, Yeah, bad people are biting my look exactly, set off my coat tails. Yeah. Despite the fact that there was all this evidence that he knew all these women and that he had their possessions in his house, and his cigarette butts at their houses, and himself on the camera coming and going in all three different places, he was like, yeah, you know, it's just my doppelganger, just just my twin.

21:55 I was so framed. Yeah. So at his trial, Matt Erosion vehemently denied his guilt and often insulted everybody present in the courtroom, including the judge himself. Sounds like a good strategy. When interviewed by the press, he claimed that the deaths were accidental overdoses and that he should be acquitted. As for the various interrogations and the things that he did admit, he claims he was tortured by the police who electrocuted him, according to him, and I didn't allow him to eat for two days.

22:23 He additionally alleged that they planted the drugs at his home. I wouldn't say it's impossible that police plant drugs. On the flip side, considering these were cases that they didn't even investigate and didn't even want to investigate, it seems pretty unlikely that when they finally got around to it only at the repeated urgings of a member of parliament that they then showed up with six and a half kilos a harrowinto plant. Like what are the cops showing up with? Like a roller bag from the airport being like doc, doc?

22:53 Could we come in? Yeah, what's in the luggage? Oh? Nothing? Could I use your bathroom? Like, oh, come on, give me a break. So on April twenty, twenty fourteen, the Moscow court found Matt Erosion guilty of the three murders, of robbery and of drug trafficking and sentenced him to twenty three years imprisonment, in addition to requiring him to pay twenty three million rubles in damages to the victims families, noticeably about twenty five percent less than the number of rubles that he stole from the first Natalia.

23:25 That seems like kind of a light sentence. Three murders, robbery and heroin trafficking twenty three years, I mean, like twenty three years a long time, but those are three fairly serious lives that aren't coming back for any reason. And like you said, he probably got twenty years for the drug trafficking, a year for the robbery, in two years for the murders. I don't know that. I don't mean to be unnecessarily once the word, I don't mean to be unnecessarily flippant. But yeah, we don't mean to make stuff up.

23:59 No, no, but but I am so yeah, I'm just supposing, all right. So at a later date, after he was sentenced to twenty three years, his defense did manage to lower his sentence by one month, so he got twenty two years eleven months. He was sent to what's called a special regime colony in Siberia. I believe that is the churched up name for a gulag. Yes, a special regime colony in Siberia, which is another Just to bring it full circle here, it's another rasputant tie in right where it was rast eaten from Siberia.

24:37 Where does Ghosha end up Siberia? And he is still there to this day with I guess, let's see, can I do basic math? Thirteen years left on his fourteen years left on his sentences. That is the story of Ghosha the Wizard. Well, these uh, these stories just kind of keep themselves perpetuated. He's going to get out and yeah, continue he may. I mean that that's the thing. He was in his you know, he's in his earlish forties, I believe, so he's definitely not going to be too old to kill when they release him, especially because he's described as like a huge muscular man.

25:16 He's probably he's going to have some of that old man prison strength when he gets out of Siberian prison. Probably a lot more dangerous than he was before. Yeah, everyone like, don't get involved with anybody claiming to be a wizard who's going to cleanse your karma and cause your money to multiply like tribles. Okay, that's that's my advice. All right. So Anson, I would love to ask you, as I try to do with every guest I'm lucky to have on the show, but I am particularly curious about your story.

25:47 I have to say, given that I personally am such a big fan of yours, do you have a kind of murdery story from your own life that you would be willing to share with me and with the listeners. Yeah, Um, there's one that's maybe a little too close to home that I probably don't think I'm the one that should tell it. Okay, okay, do you want to you view it and I'll cut it, or do you just want to go to something else. It's totally your call. Well, my my brother in law, who I never got the chance to meet, was murdered.

26:28 Oh god, that was that was Yeah, that's a disaster. That's horrible. But Brenda actually gave me She said, if you want to talk about that, you can, And I thought, I I don't think that would be uh the kind I mean, I wouldn't be able to tell it in a way that would make it. Maybe maybe sometime you can come back on and come back on with Brenda and she could tell it if she wants. But but that that would be more appropriated. I think so too, so so so give me give me another one. And and and you know it doesn't have to be like to me kind of Murdery can run the gamut from something actually terrible, something as weird as like I got my pocket picked by a circus dwarf and woke up with a headache type of So I do have some I have something that is a little, it's unusual.

27:24 So yeah, so you can tell one that that airs more on the side of fun even if you want. It doesn't have to be so dark however, whatever you want to, it's okay, perfect, that's the show. It's something that is dark enough to where you have to laugh at it to get over it. I think, uh, I mean when I was telling you about killing the spider, right, Yeah, I like spiders. I actually, you know, I go out of my way to avoid hurting them because I think they're incredibly interesting. They're beautiful, so they're also helping us out most of the time.

27:57 They

27:59 and all the other stuff that actually harm us, right, and the jumping spiders have a thing for hanging out with me, so that's kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah, But I do have a story that involves a barbecue that went very wrong. This is like in probably nineteen ninety seven. I had some friends over. The idea was to barbecue, and one of my friends brought over some lobster and I was thinking, I guess that's possible. Yeah, they didn't seem to be alive, and I so I thought, Okay, she probably cut them in half maybe and just put them on the barbecue.

28:45 Right, because again, you couldn't just easily google how to grill lobster in nineteen ninety exactly. Yeah, yeah, I'll be right back, yeah, right, right right, okay, continue, Well, okay, So I took a large knife and I cut them in half lengthwise and no, no protest, you know, no reaction, and I brought them to the grill outside. You know, the guests were around, standing around on the porch, and I put them on the grill and they came to life, and it was it was disturbing, and you know, everybody's watching.

29:34 And I had a piece of tinfoil out there that I you know, was for wrapping something, I guess, but I tried to put the tinfoil over them and just press it down onto them. And I turned around and I'm pot. I turned around and I'm apologizing to the other people that are watching it, and their eyes are looking past me, and they all they're all just like white and petrified. And one of my friends says, oh, that's much worse. And I turn around and the tinfoil is undulating, just undulating, you know, and your imagination takes over and it's it's worse than you know, probably it was but uh yeah, some people left and it was a it was a disaster for Oh my god, wow, that's insane.

30:26 And I was the only one that well, okay, I didn't feel like eating them, but I did. And they were delicious. Let me just put that out there. I'm sure they were. I don't even remember. I just remember, like, this is the least I could do. Yeah, they can't just be throwing it, be disrespectful of their agony and

30:47 yeah, yeah, wow yeah, I so. Yeah, kids at home, you always boil them. Yeah, I guess it's the only way to so even that even that sound barbaric, but so I have better than Yeah. I have grilled lobster before, but I believe it was previously frozen, like I bought it at Costco, so like there was no question of it being expired dead. But yeah, they do. I mean, I've also boiled them and you hear them scrabbling around in the pot, not for long, and it is a little heart wrenching. But on the other hand, my god, they're so delicious, And part of me also feels like maybe it's not such a bad thing that if we're going to choose to consume animals, and I am.

31:34 I respect everyone's choices and beliefs. I myself am an unapologetic omnivore, But at the same time, I think that maybe it's healthy to experience something of the animals suffering and to understand the truth of what you're doing. With modern supermarkets. You know, it's like the meat is all it's just in a package. We've become very disconnected from the cycle of life and death, that is the reality of eating animals. So as horrifying as it is, I mean, yours is like on absolute horror movie, but I think that that's not necessarily a negative to feel that pang of regret or guilt that the animal is dying for you.

32:15 You know, I absolutely agree with you, And I mean I think most people who are, you know, if they want to become vegetarians, you know, tour a slaughterhouse. That should help. I might give you other problems, but yeah, I think you should face the demons that are part of what you're consuming. Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. Well, you know, it started as a nice lobster barbecuing story and then at least spiritually, it felt like it got very kind of murdery there. So I think we nailed the objective there is.

32:53 Boy, I gotta say thank you so much for coming on. So you've got this wonderful website which is Ansonmatics dot com, and tell us a little bit about if I go to Ansonmatics dot com what will I find there? You will find artist proofs. I'm currently trying to pick up. You know, the slack on a backlog with personal painting on the backs of the proofs is something that I've been doing for a little while now and I'm trying to catch up with that. But we have prints and artist proofs, and the prices are all different because of the availability and you know, rarity of each one.

33:41 But Brenda is a great communicator. My wife, my business manager, is an absolutely wonderful person. I adore her. She's not like other girls. She's an unusual, an amazing person.

33:57 So yeah, you'll be communicating with her. But I hear what she's how she's connecting with people, and it's pretty general. I guess our businesses is dependent on people interested in magic and the collectibility of the proofs. Sure, and people can also commission card authors, potentially original art signatures, various things. They just need to get in touch with you and Brenda, and you can make their antsonmadics art dreams come true if they go head over to ansonmadics dot com. You can also find a link to ansonmadics dot com.

34:36 Anson's website in the kind of Murdering show notes for this episode, and I'll be posting it on social media as well. Don't hesitate to reach out. Anson's wife, Brenda is super kind, awesome and very responsive. All right, Well, before we say goodbye, I did want to mention really quickly, as I often do to everyone listening, that there is a free three day get lifeline number nine eight eight that you can call anytime twenty four hours a day, seven days a week to receive immediate counseling for substance use, mental health, or suicidal thoughts.

35:11 So God forbid, but if you find yourself in a cute crisis, please do call nine to eight eight. Program it into your phone now, and please do remember that the world is a better place with you in it. If you'd like to connect with me, you can also reach out to me kind of Murdery at gmail dot com, at kind of Murdery on all social media, or you can call eighty eight Murdery eighty eight six to eighty seven three three seven nine, and I would love it if you called eighty eight murdery to tell me your own kind of murdery story so that you can inspire an episode of the show.

35:45 Anson. Once again, thank you so much for being here. It's been something of a dream come true for me to get to spend this time with you. I've admired you since I was literally a small child, so it's not inaccurate to say that you're one of my heroes, and to get to spend all this time with you is just a phenomenal. Thank you so much, sir, for your time and for the wonderful stories and insights that you've shared with that. I'm glad I can inspire good things and not bad things. Absolutely well for antsinematics, I'm Zevin Odelberg, and this has been kind of murdering.